If you're worried about rising private school fees..

[CurlewKate]

... why not just get a better paid job? It apparently works for poor people.

Shhh you’re ruining the laughing at people who won’t be able to send their children to private schools anymore. We’re supposed to be making sure they know we think they’re evil and have no feelings or hardships in their lives.

It would be a shame. The feel good factor at getting at private school kids is just too much to miss out on I’m afraid.

It makes people to gleeful to care about that, crap though I agree

Don’t you use private? And are pro Labour

"I’m not sure the private school parents would necessarily know the added benefits to surrounding state schools. Why would they unless they specifically enquired with their school?"

In my experience, it's usually shared on newsletters.

No-one can answer this. That’s because there’s isn’t an answer. Your post is exactly what will happen. People aren’t capable of that depth of thinking. You can literally see it on this thread: “that’ll show the snobs” “tax the rich” “waaaaaah” “ if you don’t like paying tax leave.”

It would be funny if these people didn’t have the vote in a country with the highest state dependency on record. No critical thinking skills at all past red top headlines about taxing this rich!

Oh and no - I don’t vote Tory - highest takers for workers on record. I also didn’t go to private school.

And then you get caught in a cycle of voting to always tax those with more. Wales is a good example

People get poorer and the cycle gets more entrenched

I dread it here. We’re at tipping point with levels of state dependency

another curiosity post? How many people against private schools and writing horrible comments have more than 2 children? Everyone I know who sends their children private has only 1 or 2 children (I know there are exceptions). I desperately wanted a bigger family and have been terrible depressed at times, because I was so broody, but we felt it was best for the kids to send them private. That is not to say the local state schools are awful (they are actually great) but we wanted them to play extensive sport and no state school would offer it. That was our choice 100%. My sibling has only had one child because of the same choice. It is expensive to have and to raise children and yet people go on to have 3,4,5 children and then complain about people being elitist and snobby because they made a different choice as to how to spend their money. It costs thousands to raise each individual child which would probably not be far off a set of school fees.

Private schools aren’t a public service.Don’t kid yourself. There are hundreds of teaching jobs in state schools available. Plenty for private school teachers. There are also a lot of school places available. What it will do is balance out a completely unfair elitist system and schools which have loads of spare places because they are ‘rough’ might become a bit fairer.

Would this apply in Wales too?

This. The ONS are already waving the red flags about this. 54.2% of the population don’t contribute - they are net takers. Those paying in are an ever decreasing circle. High earners already have insane tax marginals. The chancellor’s own report say this is harming revenue. You can’t keep taxing the same people into oblivion and expect a fair society. They either leave - that’s a popular one or they change economic behaviour.

Posts like this come from a deep place of poor economic understanding. Comparisons to other places are often forgetting key facts. We have a huge inactive economic population. The basic tax rates payers and welfare claimants pay some of the lowest taxes in the world. To be comparable to these other countries - it’s not the higher PAYE workers not paying their fair share - it’s everyone else.

The ‘rich’ are already being told to avoid this policy by paying fees upfront for their child’s education; it’s front page news. These policies won’t impact the rich. They will impact those in reasonable jobs, who have worked hard and made a sacrifice here or there. People are so blinded by envy that they think “good.” All that will happen is, the very rich will carry on as is. The middles who can afford decent houses in decent catchments with take all the nice state school places. Topping up as and when needed. Everyone else will just have to take what they can get in an underfunded school system. The deprived pockets get even more so.

This won’t even come close to funding state education in a meaningful way - I don’t think people have quite cottoned on yet. Not enough people are paying in, not enough people to fleece anymore. The majority are now net takers to the societal system. The pyramid is going to topple - there is no money. We are getting into colossal debt as a nation to pay for the state.

What I find depressing about many of the private school parents on here-unlike, I nay say, most of the ones I know in real life, is that they don't appear to understand that it is possible to have principles. So they can only ascribe feelings different to their own to jealousy or inverted snobbery. I do hope they don't pass these values-or lack of values-on to their children. I started this thread as a bit of tongue in cheek humour. But it's actually quite depressing.

Principles and crowing are quite different

We have found state to be excellent for us but I find this glee depressing tbh

but why is it snobbery to say that I chose to have 2 children so I could afford to pay private school and lots of other people choose to have 3 or 4 children and choose to spend money on the extra children? I consider having more than 2 children an elitist at thing to do, far more than someone having 1 or 2 children and choosing to go to private school (by either paying outright or applying for bursaries). Why is one choice considered awful but the other acceptable?

How do you know who is a private school parent and who isn’t? We could afford private school but don’t. We bought a nice house in a catchment for one of the best state schools in the country. Pay enough tax to fund it!

My DS has an education plan in place. He is supposed to received speech and language, occupational therapy and physiotherapy all last year which is a legal document, he didn’t. Unless i take the LA to court, which being a full time working single parent with a child with complex special needs, I don’t have the time or energy to fight anymore, I pay private. Just because the LA has a statutory obligation to do something, it doesn’t mean they actually do it.

What in reality will happen is the poor to rich gap will get bigger, inclusivity will diminish.

I find this so bizarre. I have an only child thanks to secondary infertility, and actually, I love the way things turned out for our family even if it wasn't what we planned, but if you were desperate to have more, I find it really sad that you felt unable to do so simply because of school fees. It strikes me as such an unnecessary sacrifice!

Each to their own, of course, but don't you think there are other ways of facilitating a child's participation in sport? I know plenty of very sporty state educated kids who do hours and hours of sport each week, including some who compete/ have competed at national/international level. Yes, their parents have probably had to work a bit harder to facilitate those opportunities, but where there is a will, there's a way.

If Labour get in this will only be the start of the tax increases that will affect not only the middle classes but people in lower paid jobs.

There is a huge debt and they will want to show they are improving things so need to raise money somehow (they are not the party of cutting back/economising).

This will certainly have unintended consequences. Those middle classes with money have options, they can cut back/economise and in many cases choose not to work.

For the people who are enjoying this, they are coming after your money next.

@Drfosters So you were so terrified of using the schools 90% of the population use that you made yourself miserable and ill. That is so sad. I am sorry.

@DreamItDoIt well I don't have any money so they'll struggle with that one.
What pisses me off is the 'won't you think of the children?' line. No one thinks of my children, no one thinks of the kids on my estate.
Yes your child may have to leave a school where they're happy. They've still got a house, probably their own room, toys, books.
Kids have to move due to housing shortages, landlords selling up and rent caps EVERY SINGLE DAY.
When the bedroom tax was introduced, how many kids had to move homes, schools to smaller properties because their parents couldn't afford it?
When UC was introduced how many parents were misinformed and confused by the way it was administered and left legacy benefits to find they weren't entitled to anything on UC? Because I was. No one thought of my children living in a house with £500 less per month.
When the educational maintenance grants stopped for post 16 students did anyone care? That £30 a week was the reason me and most of my friends (single parents or non working parents) were able to go to college and then onto university. No one gave a shit then about our education.

And before anyone starts, my kid has SEN and is mainstream education. There's 8 kids in her class with SEN. The 'we had to go provide due to SEN' well good for you that it was an option? My kid doesn't stop having SEN because we're poor. We have to do what we can. She goes in every day because I have to work. It's not her I feel sorry for, it's the NT pupils trying to work in a classroom with one teacher, one TA and 8 SEN pupils, none of whom have EHCP's! I hope that fills you with hope.

If anyone is genuinely worried then request a meeting with your local Labour candidate. I am meeting mine next week.
FYI he has no money details than the OFS report, what does that say?!

🤣I like your style OP. Take in some ironing 😎

where did I say I was terrified? My local state schools are great. My child even could have potentially gone to a local grammar. My husband was fully comprehensively educated and has done very well. I could have saved the money and given my children each a quarter of a million house deposit each and then I’m sure people would complain how unfair that is. (We did discuss the cost benefit of that choice). My child wanted to play extensive sports. she trains at school before school, during school and after school matches most days and at weekends. She also does it outside of school. We felt that would make her happiest. I think having lots and lots of children is destroying the planet but I don’t go around shouting that at people and telling them how awful they are. The point is, we make decisions for our individual families that other people may disagree with. I just find it odd that someone choosing to spend your money on private education is demonised but choosing to spend the money on more children is not. I don’t regret my choice one bit. My kids are super happy. I don’t consider myself snobby or elitist for the choice I made. It was simply a choice. I again, don’t beleive that rising the vat on school fees will make any difference to state education as it will just be swallowed by the treasury.

But @CarrotJanice this policy won't change any of the things you've mentioned. Yes it's difficult when a child has to leave their school but it's not the end of the world and I would say that really parents should have costed the private education better, I don't think people care more about private school kids than the things you've mentioned.

The sad thing, imo, is that they will enact this and the benefits will just not be seen in state schools. The net gain won't be as big as they think and the money will be so thinly spread it won't make a difference. Those with SEN children will be the most affected.

Lastly those with money who now can't afford the fees will be quids in - they'll move to an area with great schools and donate money to the school.

I'm looking forward to the Labour policy that reduces the vast divide amongst state schools, levelling them up if you like. Let's see them redistribute the donations from the 'parents of 'rich' academies/state schools to support the struggling ones.

Every time I see people get excited by how much they can get others to pay at the same time as gleeful they will leave. Well, it’s going to be a poor outcome