If you're worried about rising private school fees..

[CurlewKate]

... why not just get a better paid job? It apparently works for poor people.

Why would you assume that? 😂
My DC have had a fantastic start to their education, and we’re only now in a position to move out of the city and buy a house in catchment for an outstanding state school.
The state schools round here are dire, hence why we made so many sacrifices.

It’s not a factor since they do meet criteria for charitable status

It’s vulnerable because Starmer wants an easy but low benefit tax

My DC’s private school sponsors a state primary. It was previously failing and they have helped to turn it around. They also run events and groups for vulnerable members of the community including the elderly.

@BlurredEdges This is in itself is good but the policy isn't framed as this. The policy is misleading as the message coming across is that money generated will be spent the whole education framework for all state pupils regardless of background , unless you went into the specifics and read the report.

Even on the mumsnet Q&A today with the shadow education minister. £1.6m was quoted but no mention that it is largely spent on disadvantaged students. I think it should be clear and open then the public can make an informed choice.

@EasternStandard "It’s not a factor since they do meet criteria for charitable status"

Actually, many don't.

Which do you mean?

Can you give an example

This is what bothers me about it (as a parent of two state school kids). The policy will do nothing to actually address social mobility, little to materially improve state education over the remaining school years for my kids and nothing at all about the old boy network which still has a great deal of influence over internships, careers, etc.

The truly rich who send their kids to the very top schools will be utterly unaffected by this

That's exactly how I feel.
I used to think it was black and white and private schools were awful.Then I became a teacher and then I had children.
Once you realise that families with the money are spending tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of pounds to buy houses in the right catchment and are spending a fortune on private tutoring and enrichment, it's really hard to remain wedded to the idea that another family from the same town in a cheaper house who goes private instead of buying in catchment is some sort of wealthy elite Vs the state school family who is apparently salt of the earth and average Joe.

If people think that making private more expensive for the children of teachers/doctors/nurses/accountants/successful tradespeople/local council workers etc is going to solve the inequality they're being very naive. All it will do is lower mobility for everyone, other than those at the very top (who couldn't care less about anyone's children, any public services, or the country in general)

£1.6bn.

I'm fine with that. My children are in state school but don't meet other criteria for disadvantage, so they are already ineligible for various schemes (pupil premium, Brilliant Club, Forest School, extra time in exams, etc.) I'm absolutely fine with this.

Education should be about equity, rather than equality - ensuring that every child has what they need to reach their potential, not giving everyone an equal leg up regardless of where they're starting.

It's just that you paint a picture of yourself as being a mug for paying taxes, and you seem to see the relationship between individual and state as a kind of competition for who can gouge the most out of the other.

I’d be interested to see the calcs for the 1.6 billion- ie what are their assumptions about how many stay in the private system? Because obviously if too many people decide to come out of the private sector then they have no extra money and loads more kids to educate (25% of a levels students are privately educated- far higher than the 7% average), so even if that’s what they want ideologically, they really don’t want that to happen. Just be interested to see their calculations,

@EasternStandard since (I think) 2000,schools have had to demonstrate "public benefit". It's not defined, but over the years many have been questioned about their contribution. There is data-I'll dig it out later if nobody else has it at their fingertips.

Ok no worries if you can’t find it I’ll take your word

But I honestly think even if schools had been great on charitable front this is such an easy win for votes, even if it doesn’t bring in much

Maybe transfer your sad feelings to the fact that the Tories could have been doing exactly this for the last 13 years … but didn’t. It’s not Labour’s fault. The whining on these threads is ridiculous.

@EasternStandard as an example- some kids from a very prestigious local private school volunteered to listen to KS1 at our primary school and it went down as a "public benefit." They then used it as their DofE volunteering requirement.🤣

@Ozgirl75 "Then they could have made the private schools work with local state schools, REALLY work together to spread that privilege to raise standards for everyone."

Any ideas how that might happen?

@CurlewKate by sponsoring state schools like my DC’s private school does.

@Dibblydoodahdah That's interesting. How does it work? It sounds as if the assumption is that private schools are automatically better-how is that benefit measured?

Rather than get start charging VAT why not make all or

To continue being VAT exempt why not make all private schools have to work harder to show what they are doing for the state sector and wider community? At the moment it's very patchy, some do a lot and some do very little. Why not make them worth harder for it?

It’s not based on an assumption that all private schools are better but clearly plenty have skills and facilties which can support state schools. For example, by sharing subject specialist teachers with state primaries who do not have access to such teachers. That’s one of the things that my DC’s school does.

@pinkhairdontmare Yes- but I am pretty sure they wouldn't want to. They certainly wouldn't want to be properly accountable-and I'm not sure how it could be measured anyway. I've been to a greater or lesser extent involved in the efforts of 4 private schools trying to do this over the years, and it varied from tokenism to embarrassingly patronising to, in one case, a lot of fun for all concerned, but with minimal measurable benefits. One provided ongoing Latin lessons- which was good- but tending to attract top set kids from the state school.

I am worried. Because my son is in a small private school specialising in vulnerable students, with about half paid for by EHCPs. My son started at grammar, was in the top 10% of the grammar cohort, but with his ASD and anxiety was destroyed very quickly to the point of panic attacks, racing heart and sleeplessness. We had to move him to join his brother (who has an EHCP) at this school. If he can’t stay, we will have to home educate, which will involve me giving up work, so as a family we will be £10,000 a year worse off than currently. To be honest, I am not sure why the answer is as we can’t afford to lose it, but equally my son has self harmed in the past due to school stress and putting him back into state school would be better for his academics but potentially fatal.

One very not-wealthy family using private school in preference to home educating.

Well, if you’re working 60+ hour weeks to fund school fees and paying 50% tax. Then the state slaps on more indirect taxation to make it unaffordable, it does rather feel like you’re being “gouged”.

But you’re mistaken, I don’t feel like a mug for working to fund school fees, it was a choice I willingly made (and would make again).

Just delighted I’m off the treadmill and DC have an excellent state alternative. We can top up with clubs and tutors if needed.

Thanks to Labour for giving us the nudge we needed, I just hope they can afford us!

@Pebbles16 @CurlewKate

Re: charities. Our school ran the provision for the children of key workers during lockdowns because the state school didn't want to. We organise & run the town fireworks every year because the local council doesn't do it any more. All three primaries use our pool for their year 4 swimming lessons.
Quite apart from the usual bursaries & scholarships.