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Original poster

HS2 yay or nay?

138 replies

BloodyHellKen · 25/09/2023 10:04

With the recent discussion re: HS2 all over the news I've been wondering what the general consensus is and MN seems like a good place to start.

Do people feel it should:
a) have been stopped years ago
b) stopped now
c) completed

Personally I think it should have been stopped years ago as I always suspected it was a lot of money for very little gain (in fact I wouldn't even have started it). The money could have been better spent elsewhere IMO (eg a reliable service from Liverpool to Leeds via Manchester) and I don't understand why both Labour and Conservatives have been so wedded to it.

Anyone?

OP posts:
ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 25/09/2023 10:06

I’d like them to sort Trans Pennine express first tbh.

Original poster
BloodyHellKen · 25/09/2023 10:11

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 25/09/2023 10:06

I’d like them to sort Trans Pennine express first tbh.

Me too. It seems obvious that would be a really good idea.

Just think if all the money spent on HS2 had been used for a good, reliable Trans Pennine Express.

OP posts:
CoffeeWithCheese · 25/09/2023 10:13

Definitely NOOOOOOOO

I live in the path of the currently not happening East Midlands part. The route it was planned to take was like massively "what the fuck" with where they planned to have the hub station and the fact that a sparrow farting incorrectly can cause traffic gridlock around here anyway.

What they could do around here to cause actual improvement in terms of getting to London would be to improve the existing stations which have too-short platforms to actually FIT the current London trains (I used to use the London trains every day to commute), improve station parking and actually link the transport networks up to the East Midlands Parkway station just off the M1 - get the airport transfers to that working, get public transport transfers to that working and use that as a proper transport hub rather than a dead station in the arse end of nowhere. Hell if the money's there - extend the Nottingham tram down to it - rather than the stupid nonsense idea they had of sticking a 19 foot high viaduct through an entire small town, bulldozing 75% of open space around here and then relocating the local football pitch... to halfway down a hill which would have made matches interesting.

Bramshott · 25/09/2023 10:14

IMO they've built the wrong bit - they should have started with the high speed lines from Manchester & Leeds to Birmingham. But what they do now god only knows - glad it's not my decision to make!!

HothouseFlower · 25/09/2023 10:22

Everything that @CoffeeWithCheese said about EMP.

Plus: massively improve the existing Liverpool-Norwich service. It's completely ridiculous that trains running on the route through the major cities of Manchester>Sheffield>Nottingham have two carriages. Two.

Plus: improve east-west links from Liverpool to Leeds, and east-west links in general. North-south routes are already much better served.

HothouseFlower · 25/09/2023 10:24

Sorry, so in answer to your actual question OP: option b. Stop now and improve what we've already got!
Like so many people said way before it even started.

Munchyseeds2 · 25/09/2023 10:27

A - should have NEVER Started

BlowDryRat · 25/09/2023 10:36

A. I didn't understand then and still don't understand now why we need another train line into London. Get the Trans Pennine line built and working!

I live in East Anglia so have no vested interest BTW.

Seychal · 25/09/2023 10:39

A - Should never have commenced.

HS2 have never delivered passenger numbers. Even the existing West Coast Mainline where it goes to Birmingham is only busy on a Friday night and Sunday night.

EsmesRedPetticoat · 25/09/2023 10:53

Ideally A, but that’s too late now so B. Spend some money improving existing services which are currently mostly a bloody joke!

DanielsDancingMonkey · 25/09/2023 10:53

If left as it is, then the strategic reasons for doing it cannot be achieved - separating long distance, goods, and local commuter trains. This results in better commuter services, and reduces the need for cars. It isn’t just about reducing times
to get to/from London. All of that should provide local as well as national benefits.

While I think that more money needs to be invested in improving existing services, I think they should just get HS2 finished. Then go and have a proper strategic review of our rail system, decide what we are aiming for, and plan it properly.

(and nationalise it)

Vinvertebrate · 25/09/2023 10:55

A - it ruined beautiful countryside and improving rail networks in the north would have been a much better use of resources. It’s an absolutely idiotic waste imo.

Original poster
BloodyHellKen · 25/09/2023 10:59

DanielsDancingMonkey · 25/09/2023 10:53

If left as it is, then the strategic reasons for doing it cannot be achieved - separating long distance, goods, and local commuter trains. This results in better commuter services, and reduces the need for cars. It isn’t just about reducing times
to get to/from London. All of that should provide local as well as national benefits.

While I think that more money needs to be invested in improving existing services, I think they should just get HS2 finished. Then go and have a proper strategic review of our rail system, decide what we are aiming for, and plan it properly.

(and nationalise it)

Thank you for answering, you're the first person on here and IRL that I've come across who thinks HS2 should be completed and it's good to see an alternative view, even if I don't necessarily agree :)

OP posts:
MrsSkylerWhite · 25/09/2023 11:01

Bramshott · Today 10:14

IMO they've built the wrong bit - they should have started with the high speed lines from Manchester & Leeds to Birmingham. But what they do now god only knows - glad it's not my decision to make!!”

Absolutely this. Was never going to happen, though.

CalistoNoSolo · 25/09/2023 11:05

It was/is a ridiculous vanity project. If it was really all about levelling up and connecting the south to the north wtf didn't construction start at the northernmost point and come down to b'ham first? It's made the UK into even more of a laughing stock, especially with those fuckwits Osborne, Cameron and Johnson all coming out of the woodwork to support it.

SisterMichaelsHabit · 25/09/2023 11:05

I always thought it was a good idea that was enacted extremely badly.
A high speed trainline would be beneficial to lots of people but they've gone about it in a completely stupid way.

For example, the amount of land (widthwise) they're taking up. Near me, they've gravelled over miles and miles of a half-mile-wide strip, straight through the beautiful greenbelt countryside. There are million pound houses that used to overlook fields and forests, and now there is hardcore/gravel right up to their property line, but the actual train line is nowhere near! They've just covered so much of our beautiful countryside in gratuitous hardcore.

And that's ignoring the constant road closures they keep doing so my 35 minute commute becomes 45-50 mins.

I also don't see how they could possibly have met the legal requirements to do thorough archaeological surveys for the amount of land we're talking about in the time they've had to do it, given how long that would take and how much people power would be required, and I worry about how much of our past is getting churned up by diggers.

RafaistheKingofClay · 25/09/2023 11:06

DanielsDancingMonkey · 25/09/2023 10:53

If left as it is, then the strategic reasons for doing it cannot be achieved - separating long distance, goods, and local commuter trains. This results in better commuter services, and reduces the need for cars. It isn’t just about reducing times
to get to/from London. All of that should provide local as well as national benefits.

While I think that more money needs to be invested in improving existing services, I think they should just get HS2 finished. Then go and have a proper strategic review of our rail system, decide what we are aiming for, and plan it properly.

(and nationalise it)

Basically this. And then improve existing connections to it and throughout the north.

RampantIvy · 25/09/2023 11:08

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 25/09/2023 10:06

I’d like them to sort Trans Pennine express first tbh.

I agree, wholeheartedly.
In response to the OP - option a.

TokyoSushi · 25/09/2023 11:09

They started at the wrong end, should have sorted out the Northern bit to Birmingham first.

However, it should never have been started really, it's an astronomical amount of money that could have been so much more useful elsewhere. If it's scrapped now, what an enormous waste of money already spent. Total mess.

piscofrisco · 25/09/2023 11:11

A) should never have started. All the people displaced from houses and businesses along the route. The damage to the environments already caused. The money spent already. Honestly it makes me so annoyed!!

HotApplePiePunch · 25/09/2023 11:12

Bramshott · 25/09/2023 10:14

IMO they've built the wrong bit - they should have started with the high speed lines from Manchester & Leeds to Birmingham. But what they do now god only knows - glad it's not my decision to make!!

This.

The assumption in the media seems to be if it's stopped the money saved would go into improving existing services which they desperately need - I suspect it just won't which for me makes it hard to say yay or nay to stopping now as I suspect it's this or nothing.

thetrainatplatform4 · 25/09/2023 11:17

No

Certain trains from Birmingham International to London Euston take only 1 hr 5 already. HS2 is barely going to improve on that.

Where the car park is planned it will take 10 minutes to cross to get to the station (about a 1 minute currently) so not saving anything

It's bonkers

Money should have been spent reopening local lines which were closed in the 1960s this benefits nationwide commuters rather than ones just going into London

shoeawsome · 25/09/2023 11:18

Definitely A, we were 20 years too late & the pandemic changed things again.

But as we have started we need to do the whole lot or just stop it now!

A Birmingham to 'somewhere outside London' line is just pointless!

I'm right in the middle of the current building, the damage to the Country side is horrific!

I can't leave my house without sitting in temporary traffic lights, and they haven't actually started on the railway yet - just access roads!

RafaistheKingofClay · 25/09/2023 11:20

I think that’s because that’s what the leak to the press said. However I think some of the NPR improvements require the Birmingham-Manchester bit of HS2 to be built so I can imagine that money might get spent on ‘improvements’ that don’t actually improve things much.

beguilingeyes · 25/09/2023 11:25

It's a catastrophic mess that should never have been started, but I don't think they should just abandon it now. Not even terminating at Euston is a joke.
This government is seemingly incapable of doing anything right.