Secondary school applications - your wishes vs your child’s

[MartinChuzzlewit]

DD is in Year 6 and secondary applications are now open.

She wants to go to the local school because her friends are going there and it’s literally round the corner so she doesn’t have to get up too early.

I want her to go to another school, one I went to, that is a 15-20 minute bus journey away and AFAIK hardly anyone in her class is applying, if anyone.

Local school is Ofsted rated good but I’ve heard about problems around smoking. The other school is rated Outstanding, and was a fantastic school when I was there and apparently is still fantastic.

I’ve had a chat with her and she’s firmly determined to go to the local school and doesn’t even want to look around other schools.

Ive said that come year 7 she will likely have a shift in friendships and anyway and over 7 years the other school is far better suited to her, in terms of academia and extra curricular activity.

Before it’s mention I do know that she may not get into further away school but I’d still like to try.

Those who’ve been through this - how do you come to a decision? Do you let your child go where they want? I feel like friendships will inevitably change completely anyway and that’s the only criteria for her going to the local school. I’d rather she tough it out and get the better education.

Id say visit both (and others if they are local and likely to be allocated)
We looked at both local schools, one we were on the cusp of catchment and the other well in catchment. Both good schools. We all thought the one in catchment was a better "fit" (for want of a better word) for DD although the other school is possibly more highly regarded.
With DS a new school had opened (I'm not sure it's had an ofsted rating yet) and we gave him the choice of the new school or DDs school and he chose the same school as DD.

Are you sure it isn't academic? Around here your chances of getting in anywhere but your catchment school are almost nil. Last year there were children in predefined catchment who didn't get a place at the most oversubscribed schools.

A friend of the family had this with her son at uni. He got into Oxford. None of his friends did. Nor did his girlfriend.

They all got into Durham and were all going. Son also got into Durham.

Friend went ballistic and strongly encouraged him to go to Oxford. He did. He loved it. New friends, new girlfriend.

He was 18 and an adult and still his life changed immeasurably for the better by not following his old friends.

Your daughter is what 10 going on 11? You choose for her. That's just how it is.

I'd go for nearer.

I'd add that at 18 going to Durham or Oxford he'd do well in any event

But at 11...no she needs the best school to get her there. Not the convenient one.

I'm biased but go with what she wants.
When I was 10/11 we were sort of in the same position. Except I went to a primary school 3 miles away rather than my local, so I wanted to go to the high school 4 miles away where my friends were going. It had a bad reputation. Our local high school was rated as excellent, I knew maybe 4/5 people going there (none from my primary school). My parents went with what I wanted. Yes there were kids smoking but guess what? The first friends that smoked went to the local excellent school.
I'd have got on fine at the local school but I was happy at the school I went to. In fact if I hadn't gone to that school I likely wouldn't have met my husband and had our children.
Oh and you'll likely find the local school has a zero tolerance policy to smoking/vaping - it doesn't mean kids don't do it!

Slightly different scenario, but the local secondary for DD was never on her radar. Partly because she is super bright and I wanted her to go to a school that would support that (grammar or private with bursery) and partly because the local secondary has an ongoing and chronic problem with bullying. So DD had a choice of three grammars and one private. She chose an all girls grammar and had the best time there, shes first year of uni now.

I think you need to either get your dd on board with your choice or go with her choice but tell her if her grades/behaviour start to slip she will need to consider moving school. Have you visited either school yet, because I think that is essential for choosing the right fit for your DD. She may decide on her own that your choice is best, but if you push and force her there she will probably double down which won't end well either.

I think actually the smoking thing is relevant, because it’s a sign of how well the school tackles issues with kids and what the peer group is up to. I also don’t think there is much between Ofsted Good or Outstanding. I think it always has to be the parent’s decision, but bearing in mind the kids point of view. You are not doing your kid any favours sending her to a shit school just because that’s what she wants. But make sure you are basing your decision on relevant factors (curriculum, quality of teaching, behaviour etc) and not a 20 year old experience of your own.

I’ll reiterate that you’re not making a choice, you’re expressing a preference and if the further away school is so good, it’s probably oversubscribed and you wouldn’t meet the criteria if you’re 4 miles away. If it’s not oversubscribed, it’s probably not as good as you think.

Aside from that, buses in the winter are not going to be fun for your daughter and expensive for you.

You need to look at both, as well as others too and you might find you change your mind. No one knows the best school for a child until they experience it either. You certainly need to put the nearby one on your list, otherwise you might find that the place offered is one that no one wants.

I would definitely as a compromise, ensure she comes with you to at least look at other schools.

I understand concerns about smoking, but that doesn’t mean your daughter will smoke, and it is something you should actually ask the school about on their open day, in terms of how they plan to tackle this.

I totally get the feeling of wanting your child to have the same type of education you did. But the school won’t be the same as you remember. I loved my school, it still has a great reputation, but has also changed a lot since I was there.

I think PPs have a great point about the importance of local friends. I loved my school but none of my friends lived locally, and with my parents divorced and my brother living with the other parent, I was very lonely.

My kids go to a school out of the county (half an hour or so on the bus) because the local school is dire (smoking, drinking, drugs, antisocial behaviour etc)
They were not given a choice!
They can easily make friends locally through extra curricular activities however my daughter's best friend lives near school....I just drive her over when she wants to go.
I'm definitely glad they are not at the local school and they have settled well where they are.

It's a difficult one, both of mine go to a grammar school and none of their friends go but the difference is they have always known that if they passed the test that is the school they were going to. I'm not sure what I would of done if they said no. I have always made them aware of the benefits and negatives of local school vs grammar. Both are happy and made good friends.

Ultimately you are the parent and and its your decision, just don't let her pick a school because it serves chocolate cake on a Friday and has half a day on a Tuesday... as my daughter's bestfriend did 😂

You haven't mentioned going to any open days or visits. Have you?

I think this is quite a difficult one as actually you both have pretty rational reasons for your preferences. I had a similar issue with my youngest but in our case I over ruled him as his preference was essentially based on the fact that some of his friends from his out of school sports club were there, but they weren't even in the same year. I had lots of strong reasons for my preference, not least that both his siblings were thriving there. (He's in 6th form now and completely agrees I was right!)
But I don't think it is as clear cut in your case. I'd suggest you make an agreement to visit each other's preference, both with an open mind, plus at least one other school as a comparator. Things may become clearer once you've actually seen what is on offer.

I'd listen to my kid.

i want her to be happy and excited to go to school, not dreading the journey and having anxiety about making new friends.

plus, the nearer school without a bus, means there's less steps in the journey that could go tits up.

if she went to the one a bus ride away. What if she misses it? What if it's late? What if driver is sick? What if someone catches it that bullies your kid everyday? So on and so on.
Lots of things could happen and you'll need to be prepared to start driving her to school and collecting her etc. If that happens, will it fit in with work or other schedules etc?

A 10 year old cannot make a decision like this, they can have input but not the final say. It is important that they understand this isn't just about distance and where their mates go. So break it down into results, options at GCSEs some only offer 8 rather than a standard 9, some force subjects like RE. What clubs are on offer, sports, drama, opportunities outside of just education.

As for choose the nearest school so they make friends, my DC are on the outer edge of the catchment in one direction and their mates were on the opposite edge of the catchment meaning they are a 50 minute walk away from each other. The positives were that mine were home in 20 minutes (25 going to school as all uphill) unlike lots who have to wait around for the right bus. Walking to school also meant when it snowed it was easy for them to still get there. But considering how little it snowed this was way down the list of pros.

Ours boiled down to a positive education environment, results, discipline and pastoral and they delivered on all counts.

I definitely think you daughter should go to the local school if that's where she wants to go. I would never overrule my kids and send them somewhere they don't want to be if there is a different similar option. It's much more convenient to be able to walk to school and rely on buses, she will know people who goes there and she will make new friends too. It's a no-brainer for me. The other school being rated outstanding means nothing at all to me and kids in the poshest private schools smoke too. Doesn't mean your DD will. Just let her have an easier life if it's possible, it's hard enough being a teenager.

Thanks everyone that’s really helpful

Ive booked slot at open days at both schools and also another one a few miles away. I’ve told DD when I’ve picked her up that if she wants a day she has to explore all her options and she’s agreed!

No because they aren’t on until October

I think actually the smoking thing is relevant, because it’s a sign of how well the school tackles issues with kids and what the peer group is up to

Yes I agree with this.

The local school apparently uses isolation and the other school doesn’t - that was also a factor for me

At 10/11 I let my kids choose the senior school that they went to because its them that has to go there and not me! Its important to lay out the pros and cons of each school and also to be clear that they have to stick with their choice. Mine all ended up choosing schools some distance away. also they did the same for gcse and a level choices. up to them really as they are the ones doing it day in and day out.

Honestly I think the child should have a say. Now I don’t mean let them pick the shittist school around but throwing one in the bin because some students smoke is hyperbole. There are children smoking at every school, there are teen pregnancies at pretty much every school.

Both my older two children picked. We did viewings at the local schools likely to get into and they picked what order preference.

Because being forced into a school you hate from day one isn’t often going to lend to a good experience though sometimes it’s amazing depends on your child and a child who hates school and doesn’t want to be there isn’t going to get a good education no matter how much you rate the school if she’s really determined to hate hate the school. Just like you need to make sure you’re not blinded by your own experience they’re making it seem greater than it truly is.

My middle child picked a school out of three where maybe two people picked from her primary of 120 cohort and it fits her best. My oldest picked the closest which is now ironically the furtherest away from our current house and is expected all 8-9’s.

I think it would be silly to not take into account the preference of the person who’s actually got to go to the school once they have viewed them.

See I just wouldn’t let her have the absolute Choice. She’s 10 and I think it’s way too big a decision, and she won’t have the priorities in picking a school that matter in the long run. But I’ll see what the open days being, the fact she’s agreed to look round is a good start.

We have two local schools. DS was determined to go to School A which is where all his school mates were going to go (it's the default choice). DH and I were fairly certain that School B would be better.

We insisted that we all had to go to both schools to look at them in person and make informed decisions.

School A was actually a lot better than I had expected. I thought it was going to be awful and very old fashioned. I came to realise that if DS really wanted to go there, I could live with that. But I still, when visiting, preferred School B.

As is turned out, once he thought about it, DS realised that actually, School B was better for him too.

My point is that you all have to look at both the schools, with an open mind, and then make your decision.

Also, don't underestimate the benefit of the local school. As I type, Ds is off wandering down to the park with a group of boys from his school which he can do spontaneously because they all live relatively close to each other and as they're near the town centre, if necessary, they can all jump on busses to head home.

I went with what DS wanted. If your child is going to smoke they will smoke regardless of what school they go to! I take responsibility for bringing up my own child and teaching him what is the right thing to do, as they go into secondary years you have to allow them a certain amount of trust.

I am glad I did as he is thriving and on track for brilliant GCSE results this year.