A church for non-believers?

[ThreeRingCircus]

DD is in Brownies and we were asked to attend a church service on Sunday to show support (the church gives the use of it's hall to the Brownies and Guides for free.)

I am not religious in any way and do not believe in god but I have always liked churches. The history of the building, the atmosphere, the singing etc.

I was surprised by how much I enjoyed it. The singing together, the vicar's sermon was funny and made DD laugh and was all about how tiny actions can add up to big changes so acting with kindness etc. What really struck me was the sense of community, the kindness with which we were welcomed and the good message for DD to hear.

DH is very anti-religion. He wouldn't step foot in a church voluntarily and says it would be hypocritical as we don't believe in god. But we've been talking about the positives about that service and how I actually feel I'd like to go back with DD. Ideally I'd like a community group that met once a week, listened to a talk and sang together.... essentially church without the god element! I don't think such a thing exists?

Do other people attend church despite not believing in god? I would feel a bit of a fraud I think but can't help thinking DD and I really got something out of the experience.

you could just join a choir op.

You don’t have to pretend to believe, I personally just lower my head in respect if there’s a prayer.

Well said @Divinespark ! I was brought up Catholic but no longer attend or believe. I was once with my DM at mass( I was an adult) and the priest complained that there were too many copper coins in the collection. One of many moments that put me off organised religion.

Join a choir or work in a primary school. We sing every day!

Tbh Christianity is 90 per cent the teaching about how we treat each other, live well together and having that sense of community.
My mum goes to church every Sunday but I don't think she really believes much of the god side - it's just the church community is an important part of her life.

But I can’t be a hypocrite and stand in church with worshippers when I don’t believe. I don’t want to support the church and being there is supporting them.

I believe that the Christian church is there for the benefit of its non members - to serve and to care for the community around. It is there for everyone.

I know a church that serves the marginalised of society including homeless, addicts etc meets during the week for lunch and then a short interactive service - also offers a top up shop for those who need cheap food etc. The people it serves also help and serve within that community.

You wouldn’t be the only non believer there, and the church supports the community, so you would be doing too.

Bunch of hypocrites then! Would rather support the community in other ways.

I guess it’s more respectful to be upfront then to lie!

I think I’m with you OP. The community comes from the shared belief. Just like you bond at hobby groups because of your shared love of the hobby. You need that commonality for the bonding.

I have joined a church as a seeker, but stopped when I just couldn’t believe. Just felt like a fake and a fraud and I knew I didn’t really belong.

@Youarecruel in one of your posts you seem to be using Humanists and Unitarian interchangeably. They’re not.

No that's the point, she was being sarcastic.

They seem to have a good record with women's rights as well (unlike a lot of religions) helping women who want an abortion in the US for example.

No I’m not. It’s unfortunate you misunderstood. I’m quite aware of the difference, both in terms of belief and in terms of being friends with quite a few humanists, been a member for a short while, and having attended Unitarian Church for a while.

For one thing, I have respect for Unitarianism which I quickly lost for humanism.

Not sure if these have been suggested yet, haven’t RTFT https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian_Universalism

I understand how you feel. I joined a community choir about two years ago now and I feel as though it certainly gives some sense of what you are looking for, even though I didn't join it seeking anything other than a chance to sing with others. I don't quite know how it is happened but I feel a sense of community and belonging at choir that I don't feel anywhere else. Everyone is friendly, we all love to sing, no need to read music or words, we learn by just listening and repeating. But there is something about singing with others that is bonding. We are non denominational and sing songs from around the world.

Might be worth looking in to for you?

"Show support" should not involve participating in a religion they might not follow.

Well the Brownies can choose not to use the hall then! I'm an atheist, but the hall belongs to the church - it's up to them who they let use it and under what conditions. Besides, Brownies was historically Christian, even though they now allow members of all religions and none.

I'm Jewish and my husband is hugely atheist but we (not so much anymore now the kids are older) used to have to regularly attend the small village church when the kids had brownies/cubs/scouts/harvest festival etc stuff on. You won't get struck down or anything. I love the ambiance of a really old building and just see it as a place where lots of stuff happens in the village. They are always so friendly and inviting and so regularly have coffee mornings etc, fetes etc.

I would call myself a hardline atheist but! my relationship with churches in contradictory.

I think churches are a great source of history in our culture and I like history so therefore I see churches as historical monuments rather than religious ones. Also, from an art & architecture POV, some are stunning to look at.

I never go to services unless it's for a wedding or funeral.

@Youarecruel apologies, it was @SerenityNowInsanityLater in the post just under yours. Even so, what a strange feeling to have about Humanism. The religious thing I know they wanted to “tag along” to was Thought for the day on R4 and burials.

Agree. They could use the subs to hire a hall or they could occasionally turn up to church with a tin of beans for Harvest Festival.

OP, very few people in the CoE (or any other non-fundamentalist Christian religion) believe everything in the Bible as literal truth. Most Anglicans don't think that eg the story of Adam and Eve is literally true but instead understand it as myth and metaphor. And plenty of us extend that approach to other parts of the faith. In any church there will be a range of beliefs, and that will include people who don't believe in any of the parts that you have to believe in in a literal sense at all, people who are unsure, people who are just there for the social side etc. It's all fine, as long as you're respectful of others.

You could always go a few times and see how you feel. Or join a group which is church-adjacent but focused on other things- at ours there's the choir, various coffee mornings, a food bank group etc etc. Similar sense of connection, fewer Amens.

If you liked the church you went to, you should definitely go back.

It's not true that church is 'for believers'. Our church has people from all different walks of life, including people who don't know what they believe. In fact, when we're taking communion etc, we make it clear that it's something you choose to participate in and if you're not sure what you believe, feel free to sit it out and chat to someone later if you want to.

Everyone is welcome and I reckon you'll find that in lots of other churches too.

I think actually a lot of non-Christians go to church regularly! The sense of community and inclusion is a real draw.

They want thought for the day and Sunday Assembly and to officiate at all the life events as they want the status of a religion without being a religion. They are eschatological in their beliefs ( we are progressing to a brighter future), and Centre the superiority of humans, just like Christianity ( and all organized religion) does. They have basically just copied Christianity uncritically and wholesale. They have fallen wholesale for the irrational, unevidenced, unscientific belief of gender ideology. Despite always having being sneery about religion for being irrational, unevidenced and unscientific. ( And I always disliked their sense of sneery superiority to people of faith).

So no, I don’t think my lack of respect for humanism is surprising. What’s to respect about all that?!