A church for non-believers?

[ThreeRingCircus]

DD is in Brownies and we were asked to attend a church service on Sunday to show support (the church gives the use of it's hall to the Brownies and Guides for free.)

I am not religious in any way and do not believe in god but I have always liked churches. The history of the building, the atmosphere, the singing etc.

I was surprised by how much I enjoyed it. The singing together, the vicar's sermon was funny and made DD laugh and was all about how tiny actions can add up to big changes so acting with kindness etc. What really struck me was the sense of community, the kindness with which we were welcomed and the good message for DD to hear.

DH is very anti-religion. He wouldn't step foot in a church voluntarily and says it would be hypocritical as we don't believe in god. But we've been talking about the positives about that service and how I actually feel I'd like to go back with DD. Ideally I'd like a community group that met once a week, listened to a talk and sang together.... essentially church without the god element! I don't think such a thing exists?

Do other people attend church despite not believing in god? I would feel a bit of a fraud I think but can't help thinking DD and I really got something out of the experience.

Exactly the same here. Especially as actually believing in God is not a particularly stringent requirement for Jews. And it's more than just the comfort of familiar songs, it's the embrace of a community and the opportunity to be part of that community by doing things for others, too. At my synagogue there is also culture, education, social activities, wider community. It is vibrant and I am very happy to be part of it - believing in God is almost irrelevant.

OP, if you feel at home in church, go. It commits you to nothing. If you (or your dh) don't, but seek a sense of community and want to sing, join a community choir. The right choir gives the same sense of togetherness, the same community outreach, and the same joy in singing.

I am a practicing Buddhist. There is no god in Buddhism, Buddhism is often described as a way of life rather than religion. We are encouraged to demonstrate kindness, compassion and wisdom in everything we do. Where I live there is something going on every week. Sometimes it's a lecture, sometimes a discussion meeting, sometimes activity for the children etc. If interested please feel free to find your local group by contacting SGI UK. Guests are always welcome, one doesn't need to be practicing or expected to convert etc

You'd be welcome in any C of E church, even if you don't believe in God. I am an active member of my church, and sit on the PCC (the organising people in charge of the money and the decisions!) and I don't believe in "God". I am a scientist; I know how the world came to be, and it wasn't by some omnipresent chap deciding how to improve things every day for a week! I also believe in the power of faith, the power of community, the comfort and security to be found in routine and familiarity, and the neighbourliness found in good churches.

There is no harm in attending C of E services to enjoy what they offer, partake in the community, and give what you can (in time, money, friendship ....). You should be welcome, and if you're not, then find a different church.

I completely understand your thinking. I would attend if it was just about community building and social cohesion without the G/J words

I was brought up Catholic and feel the same way. I don't believe in God and don't go to church often, but sat through the Earter vigil when my mum wanted to go. I knew the readings the routine, the responses everything. There was also a weird something feeling knowing that everywhere I go in the world, if I walked into a Catholic church on Easter Saturday, I'd go in at the same time, stare at a fire somewhere outside, go into the church in the dark, light a candle and say the same thing. I took my DS, and we sat at the back so we could leave if it got too boring. He said he didn't want to leave because it was so relaxing just to have somewhere to sit and listen to someone tell you a story in the dark ( yes, about someone being betrayed, flogged and then executed, but still!) without phones or TV's or the need to talk. I used to work with adults with additional learning needs, and we did something called ' 5 ways to wellbeing' about mental health. It was things like being part of a community, doing things to help others, meditation etc. I can't remember the rest. But they were all covered by belonging to a church. My late dad didn't really believe in God, but he used to say ' God may not have made Man, but Man made God for a reason' and the fact that God has been invented so many times, and that the benefits of religion on mental health etc have never been successfully replicated by humanists/ atheist organisations for any length of time means there must be a deep seated human need for religion. As long as you aren't murdering or harming people because of your religious beliefs, who cares if God exists or not? By the time we find out, we'll be dead.

Great post @Angrycat2768

What happens at Sunday Assembly? I don't believe in god but sitting in a lovely building listening to inspirational stories sounds relaxing.

I looked it up as a result of this thread. Couldn't quite work it out, but they are in a few cities dotted round the country. Sounds like some singing and readings.

When my mother and stepfather lived in a small, remote village, pretty much everyone went to church. Most were non-believers and inevitably ended up in the pub afterwards. It was very much a Community social occasion.

Well I have to say I wouldn't be too thrilled about it. Church should be a safe space for believers or at least seekers.
I'm not a christian I'm wiccan and have had a few people trying to join the coven and being quite upfront about not believing in any of it just wanting a group to join. My group isn't a social club so I've always said no and I'd feel betrayed if someone pretended to believe and sneaked in.
Christians might view it differently as they want to spread the word whereas we don't.

I know nothing about this, so may be be talking out of my ass, but I would imagine people who are not Wiccan but wanting to join a coven are a bit ' oh I'm so spiritual and different' types who want to tell others they went to a coven. I doubt Christanity would attract them!

I'm not sure that Sunday Assembly's roots are even humanist, even though the original one is held at Conway Hall in London. It was set up by a friend of a friend, and I'm pretty sure it was mostly about wanting to recreate the social and community aspects of school assemblies in the 70s/80s. I don't think it was ever intended to be humanist per se.

I guess that is why it has a strong C of E flavour because school assemblies had been C of E services but were adapted to be multi-denominational/multi-faith to reflect the beliefs of a diverse population eg a story with a moral instead of a sermon or bible reading, secular "hymns" etc. Schools had to have daily collective worship by law (and, technically, still do).

I'm with you, OP. I sometimes go to evensong with a group of atheist friends from different religious backgrounds because we love the ritual and music.

This is what puts me off going again to be honest, feeling that I'd be intruding on someone else's spiritual time.... nomatter how respectful I am. Although I do find it odd that people have turned up to your coven and outright said they don't believe in any of it! I'd hope I'd be more respectful than that.

Why? They don't have to take them up on the offer of the room, they can go elsewhere if it bothers them. It does make me roll my eyes when people are so twitchy about boring old CofE as if there's some sort of crazy cult ritual going on. Don't worry, they won't do a blood sacrifice on the girls at the altar. 🙄

Speaking as a committed Christian and churchgoer (CofE), please don’t worry about this. People will be glad to see you whatever your reasons or beliefs or lack thereof. If it helps, think of it like this: the CofE is the established Church, there for everyone in England (including those of other faiths and none - for instance, everyone has the right to marry in their local parish church).

@ThreeRingCircus My husband is a lay reader at CofE, and my entire extended family attend every Sunday. I have never fully believed despite my best efforts, im a cynic at heart. I envy his steadfast faith and the happiness it brings him. He knows I struggle to let go of those doubts and he doesn't mind, he knows I respect his beliefs and I was even the one who suggested he become a reader in the first place. Despite my doubts, when I go to church it brings me a sense of joy for the same reasons that you list. We've had plenty of people coming and sitting at the back, they don't join in for communion but they do observe and soak up the atmosphere. It's not unusual at all and I don't think anybody has ever mentioned any issues with it. We are all on different parts of our faith journey and it may surprise you to learn that not everyone sitting in the congregation will be as confident about their faith as you think.

Ultimately Christians wish nothing but good things for other people, and if you get joy and a sense of love and community from being around us then you're more than welcome. If you never believe and never find God that doesn't matter, we love everyone and welcome all. If you were in my congregation it would bring me joy to see a new face and I wouldn't at all judge if you didn't take part in every part of the service.

This is what puts me off going again to be honest, feeling that I'd be intruding on someone else's spiritual time..

The view of many christians will be that God may be whispering to you and by attending church hopefully one day you'll come to know him.

Isn't Christianity a faith that welcomes converts? So non-believers and curious people would be welcomed as they would be potential joiners.

Even though I am Jewish, I have been in many churches of many denominations, both as an invited guest and as a curious visitor. I have never been made to feel unwelcome by any of the celebrants or congregation.

I am a non believer who goes to church regularly.
For the same reasons- it's a nice group of people, and a calm reflective point in the week.
Feel better when I go.

ill admit, i would quite willing attend church, engage with the activites etc.
on the flip side to me all religions due to being written by humans, etc i dont belive they hold any truths of any gods.

that said i do like churchs @ThreeRingCircus

I became a churchgoer as an adult after coming to faith and was baptised in my late 20s. Church is for everyone and you should feel entirely welcome, whether you believe or not. Even among Christians there can be a wide variety of beliefs and views. The Church of England is definitely a "broad church". It's lovely to hear that you had a good experience.

theres one church that does a lovley coffee morning with homemade cake and wifi, plus its an excellent service from the staff too in market harb.

Oh I am so glad you posted this.

I find so much peace in church. And I think they can (provided they are non judgemental) be an important source of comfort and companionship even if you aren't religious.

I went a lot at Christmastime when Christmas was difficult to me (I lost my dearest friend in the boxing day Tsunami) and it was the only place where I felt there was room for my grief at Christmas. They always acknowledged loss and suffering in the services.

But I don't believe. And I think I would feel like a fraud if I go. And I struggle with the way the church often abused its power historically . And I struggle with very Christian people who are very earnest about it. (my uncle was a vicar but, besides the dog collar, you would never really realise as he would chat about anything and everything and was so non judgemental)

But the music and the companionship, the acknowledgement of the hard parts of life. I wish I could find a way to have that in my life every week.

the music and the companionship, the acknowledgement of the hard parts of life. I wish I could find a way to have that in my life every week.

@lapsedbookworm couldn't say it better myself. I want that missing piece. But I don't want to pretend to believe.

I go sometimes, maybe once every six months. I get peace from it. I don't know what/if I believe in a God. Make of that what you will.