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Original poster

Kids actually prefer learning in huts...

149 replies

noblegiraffe · 19/09/2023 19:39

...says the Minister for Collapsing School Buildings Gillian Keegan

She was saying this to try to make the claim that the huts are really very good indeed, but we all know what a hut is like and really this is a damning indictment of the state of the school buildings that the kids were forced to learn in previously.

As we head into the winter it's going from 'the kids are too hot to learn anything properly' to 'the kids are too cold to learn anything properly' season in my classroom. If anyone calculated the amount of learning lost due to unsuitable school buildings, and not just the ones that have been forced to close because they are actively dangerous, then we might start wondering whether this was the best way to produce a future workforce.

Incidentally, anyone still wondering why schools were closed on 31st August right before they were due to re-open, the advice to close schools was actually given to Gillian Keegan on 21st August....who then went on holiday.

https://www.tes.com/magazine/news/general/gillian-keegan-raac-crisis-temporary-classrooms

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/raac-8-things-we-learned-from-baroness-barran/

Eight things we learned from Baroness Barran on RAAC

Baroness Barran, the education minister leading the government's response to the RAAC crisis in schools, has appeared before MPs today.

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/raac-8-things-we-learned-from-baroness-barran/

OP posts:
inloveandmarried · 20/09/2023 10:15

I grew up in the 1970's and my first four years of education were in portakabins.

I preferred them to the Victorian school house with high windows and freezing in winter. Not hot in summer though but my later classes were north facing.

I have fond memories but we weren't crammed in and they had proper inter connecting toilets.

It's provably a bit of a step down from the more modern buildings our children are educated in nowadays. And the reality is it might be the provision for a very long time. I can't see the Government solving this quickly if portakabins are a cheaper, quicker way forward.

Sadly my estimate is children will still be educated in these portakabins in 5-10 years time.

Our government does not support education despite saying it does. It's been eroded and eroded back to bare bones. It's barely functioning as it is.

jgw1 · 20/09/2023 10:25

Takoneko · 20/09/2023 08:16

Keegan Is a twat.

I must say that in my school the huts are the best classrooms in the whole school despite being over 20 years old. They have good heating and aircon.

I think that says something about the state of our school buildings overall.

Even our one relatively new building has been plagued by snagging issues and problems.

Don't worry, the government intend to rebuild each school once every 400 years or so, so the huts had better be built to last.

Goldbar · 20/09/2023 10:29

notanotherclairebear · 20/09/2023 09:07

I don't think the argument is about whether or not huts are good or bad, as much as why the actual fuck were children allowed to go into school buildings that were liable to collapse on them? Blows my mind.

I agree that this is the real issue. We have been very, very lucky that there have not been any mass fatalities so far.

It's not just the concrete, but there have been school walls and roofs collapsing due to other issues with poor construction and maintenance. Most of the incidents have happened outside school hours so far but it can only be a matter of time until something happens with students in school.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

General education
sashh · 20/09/2023 10:39

I fondly remember the 'temporary classrooms' that I was educated in during the 1970s. They had lots of windows, good heating, lots of space.

Clavinova · 20/09/2023 10:45

noblegiraffe
Incidentally, anyone still wondering why schools were closed on 31st August right before they were due to re-open, the advice to close schools was actually given to Gillian Keegan on 21st August....who then went on holiday.

According to your Schools Week link - the advice you are referring to came from junior ministers - whereas expert advice went through a range of options;

Asked if the DfE could have acted quicker, [Baroness] Barran said: “I genuinely think the answer to that is we couldn’t have acted quicker, because clearly the advice we received went through a range of options from immediate closure to staged closure in a kind of warning period.
“As ministers our advice to the secretary of state was that we should take the most cautious route.”

Following the ceiling collapse in a school in England on Thursday 24th August - Gillian Keegan says she chaired meetings [remotely] on Saturday 26th August, Sunday 27th August and Monday 28th August...

“From the last case to the announcement was one week. That’s probably one of the quickest decisions that most people have made in this House, and we operationalised it, all whilst I was still working as I always do.”

IvorTheEngineDriver · 20/09/2023 10:58

The two temporary huts at our all boys school were the best classrooms in the place being next to the playing field of the girls' school next door.

jgw1 · 20/09/2023 11:03

It is a rather sad indictment of the state of the country that so many people seem to think that a temporary wooden hut is a better option than the main school building to be educated in.

Why do we have so little ambition for the future of the country?

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 20/09/2023 11:10

It's provably a bit of a step down from the more modern buildings our children are educated in nowadays.

What modern buildings? These kids are being educated in huts because their buildings are so not modern that they are literally falling to pieces.

My school has open evening coming up and I’m fully expecting parents to comment, as they do every year, that “it hasn’t changed since I was here!”

The fact that the kids prefer the huts to their collapsing school building is an indictment on the building, not a positive statement that the government should be proudly announcing.

OP posts:
Original poster
noblegiraffe · 20/09/2023 11:24

So Clav your timeline is
“experts give a range of advice”
”junior ministers advise closing schools 21st August”
”Keegan goes on holiday”
”Another school collapses 24th August”
”Gillian comes back from holiday 29th August”
”schools closed without warning 31st August”

Do you think at any point in that heads could have been warned to prepare? Given the advice and the extra collapse?

I believe what they were told to prepare was evacuation plans.

OP posts:
BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 20/09/2023 11:37

My year 2 classroom was in a portacabin, back in 1992, and everyone in the school was desperate to be allocated that room. There was something fun about being in a separate building, having to go across the yard when everyone else was stuck indoors etc.

I mean, we were like 7 so clearly had skewed perception, but the education received wasn't affected by the fact we were in a hut.

CurlewKate · 20/09/2023 11:50

At my kids year 3 were in a Portakabin. They all loved it, looked forward to year 3 and we're always sad to leave.

Not saying it's a good thing, and it's
a nightmare sometimes for teachers, but just to reassure parents!

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 20/09/2023 11:54

A secondary school near me has half its classes in a new build block, nd the other half in the same huts that's been on the site since about 1985. It gets fantastic results, is always oversubscribed and the kids all seem nice and well behaved and tbh it's just not a concern at all that half the site looks like the staff accom at Pontins. They churn out excellent, well educated children.

Spendonsend · 20/09/2023 12:14

I think it is a worry that temporary huts are safer and more desirable than the actual buildings most children are taught in.

There doesnt seem much of a plan to bring everything else up to the standard of the huts either.

roarrfeckingroar · 20/09/2023 12:14

So long as the teaching is good and the teachers turn up and the huts are safe/dry/warm is it a huge problem?

TeslasPigeon · 20/09/2023 12:35

We had a Music/French Hut shared by the infants and juniors. We were a "bump" class and it ended up as our classroom in the last infant year, it was on the Junior school side of the playground, so we felt very grown-up, as if we'd become sophisticated Juniors a year early.

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 20/09/2023 13:33

I wonder if the OP is one of those who has an issue with teachers having tattoos and nose piercings and stuff? Like stuff that doesn't actually change the quality of the learning?

Clavinova · 20/09/2023 13:54

noblegiraffe · 20/09/2023 11:24

So Clav your timeline is
“experts give a range of advice”
”junior ministers advise closing schools 21st August”
”Keegan goes on holiday”
”Another school collapses 24th August”
”Gillian comes back from holiday 29th August”
”schools closed without warning 31st August”

Do you think at any point in that heads could have been warned to prepare? Given the advice and the extra collapse?

I believe what they were told to prepare was evacuation plans.

More like this:

“experts give a range of advice”
”junior ministers advise closing schools 21st August”

"Keegan said she instructed officials to get more technical information after getting the August 21 advice" (Schools Week)

”Another school collapses 24th August”

Keegan chaired meetings remotely 26th, 27th, 28th August

29th August Daily Mirror 'exclusive' -
"Scores of schools that could be at risk of collapse have been warned to be ready for the possibility that they could have to close part or all of their buildings within days, the Mirror can reveal"

Do you think at any point in that heads could have been warned to prepare?

Several 'heads-up' notifications here:

December 2018 – The Department for Education (DfE), then led by Damian Hinds MP, joined forces with the Local Government Association to contact all school building owners in England about the [2018] Kent collapse. They advised them to “check as a matter of urgency” for roofs, floors, cladding or walls made of Raac.

In March 2022, DfE sent all responsible bodies a questionnaire to understand whether they had carried out work to identify RAAC in their schools

IClaudine · 20/09/2023 13:56

We had portakabins/huts in the 70's but that was because the school was being extended, not because it was in danger of collapsing on our heads.

It might not affect learning and the kids might like the novelty. However, it is really not OK that this is happening and the fact that the huts offer better conditions than some main school buildings is a disgrace.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 20/09/2023 13:56

Several 'heads-up' notifications here:

nope. Not that their schools were about to be closed. You know that.

Love the ‘chaired remote meetings’ - she was on holiday. Nothing learned from Dominic Raab? It’s a really bad look to fuck off on holiday when your dept is meant to be managing a crisis.

OP posts:
StillWantingADog · 20/09/2023 14:01

I spent a lot of primary school and a fair bit of secondary in the huts. Rather than being cold I remember being uncomfortably warm as there was little control over the heating once it came on

i’m willing to believe that these days there are “state of the art” huts which are better than Victorian classrooms for learning.

however it doesn’t change the fact that the SofS and the whole situation is a complete shit show

jgw1 · 20/09/2023 14:10

noblegiraffe · 20/09/2023 13:56

Several 'heads-up' notifications here:

nope. Not that their schools were about to be closed. You know that.

Love the ‘chaired remote meetings’ - she was on holiday. Nothing learned from Dominic Raab? It’s a really bad look to fuck off on holiday when your dept is meant to be managing a crisis.

What crisis were the DfE meant to be managing?
Please do remember that they do not have any responsibility for schools.

Clavinova · 20/09/2023 14:57

noblegiraffe
”schools closed without warning 31st August”

Clearly not - considering the Daily Mirror 'exclusive' on the 29th August.

It’s a really bad look to .... off on holiday when your dept is meant to be managing a crisis

It's a really bad look for headteachers to have 6 weeks holiday when they haven't filled out their Raac questionnaire - despite several reminders.

I remember reading this in your NAO link;
Many estate managers report that they struggle to interest school leaders in the strategic management of their buildings.

everetting · 20/09/2023 15:00

I have long thought a lot of British parents have really low expectations for their children. I bet government ministers would not accept this for their own children.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 20/09/2023 15:07

Portakabins are clearly not as good as a properly constructed school building, but they are better than a classroom ceiling collapsing on the kids.

We shouldn’t be focusing on the minister’s daft statements - we should be demanding a public enquiry on why no-one did anything about the RAAC problem years ago, so it could have been dealt with in a planned fashion, with a lot less disruption to the children’s education.

Clavinova · 20/09/2023 15:14

noblegiraffe
Love the ‘chaired remote meetings’ - she was on holiday

The meetings she chaired were held on Saturday, Sunday and Bank Holiday Monday.