Lucy Letby appeal

[GonnaGetGoingReturns]

Sorry if not allowed to discuss here but just seem that this vile creature plans to appeal against her original sentence as per yesterday’s news. Her defence team is leading this potential appeal.

WTAF?!

They haven’t reached a verdict on is it 6 or 7 poor other little babies who died and she’s suspected, I thought?

So sad for the poor parents and babies still.

Lucy Letby hasn't admitted guilt. Even though she has been found guilty, she maintains her innocence, whether you like it or not. And in the albeit small likelihood of her actually being innocent of one, some or all of these terrible crimes, she is entitled to appeal. That's the law and the law is the same for everyone. Or it wouldn't be fair.

Many, many people have had convictions overturned on appeal - in your opinion did they do it, or are they innocent?

Words fail me. I am quite sickened by the stupidity shown here. Everyone, but everyone, is entitled to a fair trial and access to the judicial system.

My post was intended sarcastically, but it shows how low the debate has sunk if 'if they did it, they shouldn't be allowed to appeal' can be mistaken for a serious argument.

@thedancingbear Have you listened to the LL Podcast? Before the verdict I only listened to news reports about the trial. I really didn’t think she’d be found guilty based on those reports. When she was found guilty I decided to listen to the evidence, so the podcasts. I now have no doubt she’s guilty, if you don’t listen to all 60 odd episodes of the podcast, listen to LL on the witness stand.

Just a few examples -

She is shown to be telling lies over and over again, often about little things, like what happened when she was arrested- she lied about it even though she knows there is body cam police footage which refuted her claims.
She changed medical notes to make it look like she wasn’t there when babies collapsed. But then categorically denies doing it despite these notes all being in her handwriting.

She also stated that all 200 pieces of medical, highly confident notes were found under her bed/in her garage were there because she likes “collecting paper” and they had been kept in a confidential place because it was her house and no one else would look at them! She denied in her police statement that she had a shredder then one was found in her house, she said she only used it for bank statements.
These are just a few examples of her lying constantly throughout her evidence, there are many more.

@GonnaGetGoingReturns Slightly off topic but wanted to say that I admire your comment:

“Anyway, I obviously take back my LL has no right to appeal stance.”

Open mindedly considering other people’s views and ultimately changing your mind as a result - and admitting it - is something that should happen more often.

It is not a sign of weakness that you have been “swayed” as implied here by some, it is a sign of confidence to admit you have changed your mind and should be lauded. The world would be a much better place if this happened more frequently instead of people entrenched in their views regardless of reasoned points being made. What is the point of discussion otherwise?

Shocking ignorance on this thread. Let's hope none of you are arrested.....No matter how heinous a crime, the right to appeal is so important! As is the right to a robust defence and funding to do so.

Me too. Explains how politics has been able to get into their current state.

So only rich people should get access to lawyers? Fuck!

@thedancingbear bet you're regretting your sarcasm now!

To everyone new jumping on dancingbear: READ THE FULL THREAD.

For the person who asked why the jurors took so long, it was becayde she murdered so many babies and they did their job properly of fully deliberating over the evidence for every single child and making a decision individually on each one. Of course it took that long. I am stunned anyone even has to ask.

You only get to go to the appeal stage if the court says you did it! You're basically saying there should be no appeals.

I suspect we may allow appeals a little too easily, however. But we need a more subtle approach to deciding if appeals should be allowed than "are they guilty?".

Agreed.

It's deeply disappointing to see the level of ignorance on here about how important the right of appeal is in the justice system.

I don't begrudge the appeal. We can't decide who gets that right. The right of appeal is a key pillar of a safe justice system

Agreed. I can't believe the level of ignorance and the clear lack of critical thinking. A total mob mentality.

Yes and no. It was borne of frustration at stupidity of the OP.

But others have responded very clearly and articulately, so a purpose was served...

What?

No wonder the country is fucked 😳

@thedancingbear Yes that's true, you provoked some v interesting responses.

Fucking hell. IAAL (in a completely different area) and there's cases I'm working on where I haven't had time to read everything!

I'm not doubting your conviction. Maybe I'll get to listen to the podcasts/read the transcripts in retirement. Only another 19 years...

I realised your comment was sarcastic but it's clear many on this thread would sadly agree with every word.

I lost count of the number of otherwise intelligent and educated people who would ask me (because of my job in a related field) how lawyers can "bear to defend a murderer". Why don't people do even a basic bit of reading about the principles of justice? Or remember there have been awful and prominent miscarriages of justice? Appeals are an important safety valve in a justice system.

According to this barrister the evidence isn’t substantial and beyond all reasonable doubt.

I think she did it BUT I think she should sack her defence team who did a truly terrible job first time round. They invited one witness to testify on the defences side and the basis for that chap being there was incredibly flimsy (he worked on the maintenance team for the hospital!)
Technically speaking an accused person doesn't have to put up any defence. It's for the Crown to prove their guilt, not them to prove their innocence

And makes me genuinely fearful for this country's future

Also the insulin evidence has been questioned by people showing she wasn't on shift on a few occasions when their IVs would have been changed so how did she make sure the nurses on shift picked the poisoned bags out of all the others.

My understanding is that there was standard bags that could be given to any baby and ones that were a specific formulation for an individual baby.

We have an admirably robust legal system in the UK, and the right to appeal is fundamental. It should not be denied to anyone, regardless of their crime(s). And using lazy tabloid terms like "evil" and "monster" is irrelevant, because the whole point of the justice system is to operate on facts and entirely free of any emotion.