Lucy Letby appeal

[GonnaGetGoingReturns]

Sorry if not allowed to discuss here but just seem that this vile creature plans to appeal against her original sentence as per yesterday’s news. Her defence team is leading this potential appeal.

WTAF?!

They haven’t reached a verdict on is it 6 or 7 poor other little babies who died and she’s suspected, I thought?

So sad for the poor parents and babies still.

It is. It’s beyond ridiculous. Particularly when it was unanimously agreed that insulin is always administered to tiny babies via syringe and never via TPN bags - which is how it got into Baby F.

The quote above shows Baby E was prescribed it on 2nd and 3rd of August (via a 12 hour transfusion).

The defence accepted that exogeneous insulin must have been administered because they accepted the medical reasoning that you can't have low c peptides with high insulin. ie they had no alternative medical or scientific evidence to disagree with that. I think Mr Myers said the defence accepted insulin must have been given - and hence Lucy Letby agreed that must have been the case but that she didn't give any.

People who are querying the insulin issue seem to have two arguments. One that it was adminstered accidentally due to a bag for Baby E still being in the fridge (with the same surname),. Or the medical theory that as Baby F was born of a diabetic Mother on insulin, the high levels may not have been administered but be caused by auto antibodies to insulin - in addition to produced insulin (i don't understand all of that but it was in a research paper showing how auto antibodies of babies from diabetic Mothers on insulin, could create high insulin readings. A third theory was that the insulin results on the test must have been wrong or the test done incorrectly as the levels were so high they would have killed two grown adults instantly.

The Doctors didn't query the insulin test results when they got them back or have tests for auto antibodies done.

Am guessing the appeal request may be on new evidence relating to the insulin aspect. Neither of the babies with suspected/accused insulin poisoning died - they both recovered. Which may be why the Doctors didn't take much notice of the insulin test results when they were returned.

Even if the insulin incidents are overturned, there is still the matter of the other 11 WLO. It won't make a difference in terms of freedom.

True - they would need a lot of new evidence or evidence that Dr Evans report was flawed/incorrect. The defence had tried to have it thrown out during the trial but the Judge apparently said - let the jury decide whether to acceot it or not.

I don't know if she was guilty or not but there were a lot of assumptions made without any evidence. Strange that they didn't have more witnesses for the defence - even character witnesses.

So this case is incredibly close to my heart. My twin girls were born in 2016 and I crossed paths with this woman. I also worked within the countess in 2020 for a while. I still have friends who work within the countess and they were around when this vile women was. The frustration I have, is that majority of the people I know who works there has said to me they don't believe she did it. They believe someone is trying to cover something up. It makes my blood boil. These beautiful babies and their beautiful families deserve the truth and deserve peace (as much as they can have after such awful losses)

I've watched every single documentary or true crime case I can find about this and in all honesty, I believe she is a vile sick human being but I can't lie, the fact people within the hospital believe different makes me incredibly nervous. If she isn't the one who did this, then who did? Is the murderer still out there or can we get clarity that this disgusting women will admit her crimes? The world scares me. I hate it! Nobody should be put through the pain those poor babies and families went through!

Yes it's terrible what the parents have been through. If she didn't do it, then maybe it was just a lot of errors on the unit, overloaded and not well run. A paediatric Doctor wrote a report about the state of the unit saying it was unsafe and not enough staff or equipment.

If it turns out she didn't do it, then those poor parents have to adjust their beliefs all over again and blame the hospital.

Do.you seriously think its all.a big misunderstanding?
seven consultants investigated this for 12 months and the only conclusion they could come uo.with was that somebody wss deliberately harming babies and that person wss LL.,
Clearly the police and CPS also agreed which is why it went to trial and she wss found guilty it would have taken an awful.lot of bad luck.and unfortunate coincidences for her to.actually be innocent.

Frankly it would take a miracle.

It's actually quite hard to get an appeal. Has to be either fresh evidence, poor representation, mistakes or misconduct of the trial judge, jury irregularities, bias, inconsistent verdicts or disclosure issues.

She may not even get an appeal . Isn't she back on trial soon for the 6 attempted murders the jury couldn't reach a verdict on?

www.chadwicklawrence.co.uk/legal-news/cqc-report-finds-countess-chester-hospital-maternity-services-unsafe/

Yes, you keep pushing that agenda of yours.

Never hurts to remind the vigilantes of their litany of shame.

www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/mar/18/miscarriages-justice-history

Well that's me totally convinced by all those miscarriages of justice that happend between what, 16 and 55 years ago

And don't forget that many many miscarriages of justice actually occurred because of overbearing policing and wrongfully obtained confessions which resulted in PACE.

Nothing like LL failing to bring a good enough defence because....well, she just didn't have one.

I'd think it would be far more difficult for a miscarriage of justice to accurately when someone has been charged with so many murders and attempted murders

Yes there are other reports like that. And this email from a Paediatrician which shows the state of the problems on the unit

"A senior doctor warned that the neonatal unit where Lucy Letby worked was chaotic, overstretched and unsafe for patients and staff two years before the serial killer nurse was suspended.
Dr Alison Timmis, a paediatrician, emailed Tony Chambers, the hospital’s chief executive, in December 2015, reporting that staff were in tears because they were being forced to look after more babies than the unit could safely accommodate.
In her note, copied in to other senior managers, she told him: “Over the past few weeks I have seen several medical and nursing colleagues in tears . . . they get upset as they know that the care they are providing falls below their high standards.” Staff at the Countess of Chester Hospital were “chronically overworked” and she felt “no one is listening”.
“This is not an exceptionally busy week,” she wrote. “This is now our normal working pattern and it is not safe. Things are stretched thinner and thinner and are at breaking point. When things snap, the casualties will either be children’s lives or the mental and physical health of our staff.”

It's quoted in the Times but they decided to use it to say Lucy Letby took advantage of the failings in the hospital - rather than seeing the failings as an indication of why so many things went wrong

Apparently the defence weren't permitted to use that as evidence in the trial (don't understand the permissible evidence rules).
https://archive.ph/UqsW4#selection-1029.0-1049.294

Well of course there were issues! She wouldn't have been able to get away with it for so long if there wasn't

Presumably It wasn't admissible because it didn't prove or disprove the fact in issue

So it didn't help to prove or disprove that she harmed the babies

Convinced about what, the danger of vigilantism?

The two page email also said

"She said another colleague worked 23 hours over the same weekend. The neonatal unit was forced to close repeatedly and had three or four babies more than its “maximum capacity” the previous week, she said."

"“A midwife had to come from [the] labour ward to help check emergency resuscitation drugs as there was not enough trained nursing staff on the unit. At several points we ran out of vital equipment such as incubators,” she wrote. At one stage she told Chambers that a baby had to be intubated — a tube inserted to help them breathe — in the middle of a room as there were no free bed spaces.
Highlighting a lack of staff, Timmis said: “We do not meet the national standards for paediatric nurses, neonatal nurses, or doctors.”

Rather than argue that a nurse took advantage of this to kill babies, it could be said that there was insufficient care and medical errors (there were some it was noted during the trial) and that was the cause of the demise of the babies.

When I newly qualified as a nurse, I got a job at a not so great hospital that was very short staffed and chaotic. It needed a qualified nurse to check pre-meds before operations (and there was only me covering two 30 bedded wards). I would have to go back and forth between two 30 bedded wards every 15 minutes for the next pre med to be checked/given. On on occasion - on the other ward, I was taken to a patient, handed their notes to check their name and told this was the patient the pre meds were for. I did a double check and also checked the name on the end of the bed (which was the same) and the name on the wrist tag (which was not the same). It was the wrong patient with the wrong chart on the end of the bed and luckily I avoided this mistake by careful checking.

But if their unit was that short staffed and chaotic, mistakes can happen.

Oh and there was also a rather unpleasant consultant who used to make mistakes and blame them on the nurses.

So I still don't know if she was guilty or not but have doubts about the case.