Page 12 | Massive increase of children with autism

TickingKey46 · 2023-09-09T07:56:30+00:00

I've noticed since the lock down there is a massive increase in children being assessed for autism and associated conditions. I mean massive. On the school run parents are often discussing it it's become so routine. I'm really interested in why. Why are so many children being diagnosed with this condition?

Adifferentangle · 09/09/2023 12:36

This is where I think different types of schools should cater for ND and NT children - or split lessons in the same school. It's not fair on the NT kids to have someone disrupting their lessons. The ND child might have strengths in other areas (where they hyperfocus) and the lesson they're disrupting might not be their future, but it's not fair to disrupt for someone else where it might be their future path.
Would earlier specialisation be helpful for some ND children so they aren't forced to do subjects they can't concentrate on and instead let them have more downtime in between their interests?

greyflannel · 09/09/2023 12:38

mandymion · 09/09/2023 11:36

"There is no definite link between ADHD being caused by trauma. It's considered a neurodevelopmental disorder like ASC. There is some theory around trauma and ADHD."

IMO there's no PROVEN link as yet; does not mean there is or is not for sure as we just don't know either way yet, scientifically.

FFS - you do know there is an evidence base with peer reviewed research and you don't just need to make this stuff up? There is evidence of a causal relationship, but it runs in the opposite direction. Having ADHD predisposes you to experience trauma.

SnowWhiteAndTheTwoKids · 09/09/2023 12:39

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 09/09/2023 12:27

I've been a teacher for nearly 30 years. In my experience, the number of diagnoses has increased exponentially, but leaving diagnoses aside, the number of children displaying behaviours (ranging from subtle to very obvious) typical of ASD has also increased exponentially. When I first started teaching, it wasn't that you saw lots of these behaviours but people weren't diagnosed. You simply rarely saw these behaviours. Maybe one in a school year. Now it's more like 3+ in a class.

I agree. It's not just about heightened awareness. There's a lot more of it. Do you notice an unusually high proportion of children with these behaviours are from an Asian background?

AutismProf · 09/09/2023 12:40

Adifferentangle · 09/09/2023 12:36

This is where I think different types of schools should cater for ND and NT children - or split lessons in the same school. It's not fair on the NT kids to have someone disrupting their lessons. The ND child might have strengths in other areas (where they hyperfocus) and the lesson they're disrupting might not be their future, but it's not fair to disrupt for someone else where it might be their future path.
Would earlier specialisation be helpful for some ND children so they aren't forced to do subjects they can't concentrate on and instead let them have more downtime in between their interests?

ROFL
As if NT kids never disrupt lessons. Have you ever been to a secondary school?

greengreengrass25 · 09/09/2023 12:41

HideTheCroissants · 09/09/2023 12:22

And, specific to your post covid query - lockdown was extremely traumatic for autistic people, I cannot emphasise that enough!!

I disagree with this …. my autistic DS and my (believed to be autistic) DH absolutely LOVED lockdown. They found having to be back “out in the world with people” VERY traumatic because the lockdown made them realise how great life is for them with no requirement to interact with people.

I'm not autistic but I didn't mind wfh at all in lockdown and don't socialise as much as I used to

I wonder if others feel the same

Sirzy · 09/09/2023 12:41

Adifferentangle · 09/09/2023 12:36

This is where I think different types of schools should cater for ND and NT children - or split lessons in the same school. It's not fair on the NT kids to have someone disrupting their lessons. The ND child might have strengths in other areas (where they hyperfocus) and the lesson they're disrupting might not be their future, but it's not fair to disrupt for someone else where it might be their future path.
Would earlier specialisation be helpful for some ND children so they aren't forced to do subjects they can't concentrate on and instead let them have more downtime in between their interests?

whats with the generalisations? Ds is autistic, he has full 1-1 and he doesn’t disrupt anyone else’s education. His biggest frustration in school is often the behaviour of NT pupils.

i am all for a much more flexible education system whereby individual needs are met for all pupils but segregation isn’t the answer.

Santanderfall · 09/09/2023 12:44

LifeIsShitJustNow · 09/09/2023 12:24

Fully agree there!!

In our family, the ND people thrive in an environment where they didn’t have to conform to norms that don’t suit them.
DH was way calmer wfh vs in an open plan office with 100+ people in.
dc was delighted to ‘miss out’ on all those social interactions he struggles with.

The one that had a hard time is my NT, social butterfly, dc!!

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Yup.

But also, you don't need to be ND to have enjoyed certain aspects of lockdown. And even if you are ND, that isn’t necessarily the reason WHY you enjoyed lockdown.

I think one of the things that is happening post-covid is a lot of children and adults who are naturally introverted experienced life without the usual paradigm that if you dont enjoy imposed social contact or interaction or even expected face to face interaction; then that must be due to a ND disorder or mental health problem and not possibly that it could be a preference.

And that it's completely possible to have that preference and still have a fulfilling life, have friends and satisfying and deep relationships and it isn't 'weird' or 'sad'.

OutsideLookingOut · 09/09/2023 12:45

Procrastinatingbecauseithelps · 09/09/2023 09:49

Older dads!!

It’s not just women that have a biological clock. Men over the age of 40 have a far higher chance of having a child with autism.
mots scientifically proven - I wish there were more awareness campaigns around it.

Men think they’re immune and can have children as late as they like without consequence - they can’t.

This! They can father children but increases in disability!

SnowflakeCity · 09/09/2023 12:45

Adifferentangle · 09/09/2023 12:36

This is where I think different types of schools should cater for ND and NT children - or split lessons in the same school. It's not fair on the NT kids to have someone disrupting their lessons. The ND child might have strengths in other areas (where they hyperfocus) and the lesson they're disrupting might not be their future, but it's not fair to disrupt for someone else where it might be their future path.
Would earlier specialisation be helpful for some ND children so they aren't forced to do subjects they can't concentrate on and instead let them have more downtime in between their interests?

My ND kid hates people disrupting class, he is a very fastidious learner. Plays by the rules, gets top grades takes school really seriously. What worked for him with secondary was the fact that we could get him into a really small school which I appreciate we are lucky to be able to do. He has some lessons where there are just five of them, I think the most is 17. We knew the large local secondaries with over a 1000 students would be way too much for him to cope with so we picked a small one a 40min bus ride away. It has been the absolute making of him to have a quiet environment where most of the kids really want to learn. This was a choice we made prior to his diagnosis because we looked at ds as an individual and saw what would work for him.

SnowWhiteAndTheTwoKids · 09/09/2023 12:46

mandymion · 09/09/2023 11:36

"There is no definite link between ADHD being caused by trauma. It's considered a neurodevelopmental disorder like ASC. There is some theory around trauma and ADHD."

IMO there's no PROVEN link as yet; does not mean there is or is not for sure as we just don't know either way yet, scientifically.

There's a huge link between ACE's and ADHD.

Whyohwhywyoming · 09/09/2023 12:47

Vilee · 09/09/2023 12:19

The one autistic person I knew when I was young was (and still is) totally non verbal and unable to do anything independently. Now I know loads of autistic children and adults, none of which you would know were just by talking with/knowing them. So the understanding of the spectrum has obviously increased.
Whilst the increased understanding and diagnosis’ is excellent, I do wonder though if perhaps it’s not helpful to have autism as a definition for something as wide a spectrum as that.

But those people would have been described as having Asperger’s back then. I do think it is very difficult, as a thread showed recently, for parents of those children whose autism means for example they will never speak or live independently, when people have a perception of what autism is based on a different part of the spectrum.

DrinkingWineInBed · 09/09/2023 12:48

ROFL
As if NT kids never disrupt lessons. Have you ever been to a secondary school?

This. Unless of course those disruptive kids that are thought to be NT have undiagnosed ND...but posters here would hate that.

My daughter has autism....she isn’t the one disrupting lessons. If she could not speak at all at school, she’d be happier.

So many people that know fuck all here. Mumsnet really need to deal with these shitty ableist threads.

greyflannel · 09/09/2023 12:48

Adifferentangle · 09/09/2023 12:36

This is where I think different types of schools should cater for ND and NT children - or split lessons in the same school. It's not fair on the NT kids to have someone disrupting their lessons. The ND child might have strengths in other areas (where they hyperfocus) and the lesson they're disrupting might not be their future, but it's not fair to disrupt for someone else where it might be their future path.
Would earlier specialisation be helpful for some ND children so they aren't forced to do subjects they can't concentrate on and instead let them have more downtime in between their interests?

Yes, that would work, because ND children are obviously not to be treated as though they were each individuals, but as a bothersome group to exclude en masse. See Austria in the 1930s for an historical example.

PetiteNasturtium · 09/09/2023 12:49

Awareness obviously and studies on age of parents as an increased marker are known newer research on obesity and other metabolic issues of Mothers is on the rise. The issue with interpreting data is many people then immediately leap to anecdotal evidence.

Here is a link to Nursing Times which is a respected journal that reported on the research by an American University. More research needs to be done but looking at obesity rates skyrocketing a link seems a valid probability.

https://www.nursingtimes.net/roles/learning-disability-nurses/study-links-autism-to-maternal-obesity-16-04-2012/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxem_gbidgQMVy8btCh0YcwDDEAMYASAAEgLYXfD_BwE

Study ‘links autism to maternal obesity’

This news is based on research examining the possibility of a link between a child’s chances of deve...

https://www.nursingtimes.net/roles/learning-disability-nurses/study-links-autism-to-maternal-obesity-16-04-2012/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxem_gbidgQMVy8btCh0YcwDDEAMYASAAEgLYXfD_BwE

Whyohwhywyoming · 09/09/2023 12:49

SnowWhiteAndTheTwoKids · 09/09/2023 12:39

I agree. It's not just about heightened awareness. There's a lot more of it. Do you notice an unusually high proportion of children with these behaviours are from an Asian background?

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what are you saying?!

SpaceRaiders · 09/09/2023 12:49

Adifferentangle · 09/09/2023 12:36

This is where I think different types of schools should cater for ND and NT children - or split lessons in the same school. It's not fair on the NT kids to have someone disrupting their lessons. The ND child might have strengths in other areas (where they hyperfocus) and the lesson they're disrupting might not be their future, but it's not fair to disrupt for someone else where it might be their future path.
Would earlier specialisation be helpful for some ND children so they aren't forced to do subjects they can't concentrate on and instead let them have more downtime in between their interests?

Lol.

This thread is so predictable.

Tweedledeee · 09/09/2023 12:50

Yes this odd. No one at primary school (early 60s) autistic but there were ‘mental defectives’ who disappeared off to special schools (presumably) who no doubt had autistic traits.
But society as a whole is much less polite and then ime , in a country area, everyone knew or knew of one another and keeping up appearances was v important.
So you didn’t shame or embarrass your DPs -of course -and corporal punishment helped keep DCs in-line. None of that now.

Whyohwhywyoming · 09/09/2023 12:51

greyflannel · 09/09/2023 12:48

Yes, that would work, because ND children are obviously not to be treated as though they were each individuals, but as a bothersome group to exclude en masse. See Austria in the 1930s for an historical example.

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It’s hard though; my son is disruptive and probably would benefit from a small specialist setting. I don’t know what the answer is

SnowWhiteAndTheTwoKids · 09/09/2023 12:52

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Santanderfall · 09/09/2023 12:54

SnowWhiteAndTheTwoKids · 09/09/2023 12:35

Anyone else think it's also become a bit 'cool' to be ND? Suddenly an explosion of instamums who blame all of their crap parenting on their ND.

I disagree that its "cool" for insta-Mums to claim anything.

But there is definitely a toxic amount of misinformation around MH problems and neurodevelopmental disorders on TikTok, YouTube and Facebook where it has become 'trendy'.

Anyone that claims otherwise doesn't know the extent of the misinformation or how it can propel a SM 'influencer' to more subscribers.

But that doesn't mean that the diagnoses in themselves are invalid.

girlygirly · 09/09/2023 12:55

These children used to be called naughty, slow, odd, retarded.

But when I was at school (60s/70s) there were very few children described as this. I can remember 2 boys, deemed 'naughty'. I genuinely don't recall any described as slow, odd or retarded. Obviously there may have been in others years/classes that I didn't mix with, but certainly not in the numbers now found.

StaunchMomma · 09/09/2023 12:55

It's just better awareness and recognition of how different children present, especially girls.

If you think it's a label that is just thrown around then you're wrong. The NHS waiting list for assessment is years long and the child is seen by a number of professionals who have to agree on a diagnosis for it to be given.

Same if you pay privately. Although seen fast, the kids are still assessed by a number of professionals/psychologists etc in different settings.

I agree with the post on here in the last few days about the amount of ableism noted on here of late. It seems to be a growing bit of conspiracy that kids are being diagnosed unnecessarily. The 'it didn't happen in my day' brigade are just wrong. It did, but kids were allowed to fall through the cracks.

Whyohwhywyoming · 09/09/2023 12:56

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I see you’ve raised the stakes in your comments from racism to classism. What’s next?! 🤣

in order to get a diagnosis, the issues have to be present in more than one setting. Both my children had reports etc submitted by the school and questionnaires the school had to complete according to clinical guidelines. So parents can’t “play the system” unless the school is colluding in it.

SnowflakeCity · 09/09/2023 12:56

Whyohwhywyoming · 09/09/2023 12:51

It’s hard though; my son is disruptive and probably would benefit from a small specialist setting. I don’t know what the answer is

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Yeah, I don't think that poster is completely wrong, although the presumption that all ND kids are disruptive is. I think that more ways to learn, more settings where kids could focus on the things they excel at would be great for everyone ND and NT. And there is a place for schools that cater specifically to ND people. Ds has thrived in small class sizes, he was never disruptive but now feels like he can focus properly. The only reason he could get this though is geography really.

pickledandpuzzled · 09/09/2023 12:56

RonniePickering · 09/09/2023 11:45

Surely anyone is allowed to decide not to have kids because they know they couldn’t cope with a child with severe disability who would never be independent and they don’t want to risk that. Aren’t they?

Of course, I think it’s rude at the very least though to say “if I was autistic I wouldn’t have children in case they were severely disabled”.

Or, in context,

If I had a disability that made it more likely my child would have a more severe form of the disability, I wouldn't have children as I know I'd struggle to cope.

That's a reasonable comment. Many people with health conditions undergo genetic counselling to help them understand the likelihood of their child being significantly disabled.