Did you have an assisted place in a private school in the 80s and 90s?

[OnTheSofaAllNight]

What was your experience? Would you want the government to bring them back?

I went to a very academic private grammar school thanks to Thatcher's assisted place scheme but I was on free school meals. I had a horrible experience at the school for 7 years mainly because I was always trying to hide my very bleak, poor, family circumstances. The school was very cold towards its pupils and I always felt if you were not middle class, white and straight you had a very difficult time fitting in. I also learnt about unfairness very quickly, how privileged some people are simply because they are born into the right family.

But my education definitely gave me a leg up. I was the first person in my family to do A Levels and go to university. I live a very comfortable existence now and my kids have everything I didn't.

So if you had an assisted place, how do you feel about them now?

I chose not to send my kids down the private route and yes, I'd probably ban private schools in an ideal world. I just wish I could have gone to the local comp with kids from a more diverse range of financial circumstances and gotten a really good education there (but I know private schools give you a leg up even if you don't get stellar exam results).

Why do you feel you would not have got the same exam results in the local comp?

In my case the local comp didn't support girls doing sciences - as in they didn't have a single girl study physics at a level ever - I doubt I could have stood up against that social pressure

They do have girls doing physics now - not sure when the shift occurred but after my time

I did survive the being one of the poorest mostly because I felt the attitudes of the wealthier kids was beneath me

Previous research

If you study a large group of clever children from age 11 to 25

Pretty well 100% of those privately educated will do well at a levels; only half the comp children will do well at a level

I can't totally recall the % at uni by something like >10% of the comp childen and >20% of the private children then dropped out of university

Yes I did and I feel I benefitted from it. I was also on FSM and used to feel embarrassed when my Dad picked me up in his builder’s van - most people’s parents were solicitors or doctors. But I was never made to feel different by staff or the other kids, there were a few of us with assisted places I think but nobody really knew who.

I had a really good education, I think the discipline and the smaller classes were the main benefits. I went on to do a degree and I guess now live a fairly MC lifestyle which is very different from how I grew up although not necessarily better.

I’m not sure how I feel about them being brought back - ironically I don’t think my DD would have qualified if they existed now as I’m in that bracket of being far from rich but above the level to receive any ‘help’.

Assisted places have been shown to provide social mobility but I would rather a lot more investment in the comp system to remove the private school benefit

I suspect assisted places are cheaper solution though

I had an 11+ place at an independent girls' school. The school was pretty rubbish to be honest but I still did well (straight As at GCSE) and personally benefitted from it being a girls' school because I took all the sciences and ended up doing a Physics degree which probably wouldn't have happened if I'd stayed at the comp. I don't remember there ever being any issues between the fee-paying girls and the free place ones. But we weren't particularly poor, just average.

I didn’t have an assisted place but I did get a scholarship.

My view now is that it is very offensive to argue that private schools giving scholarships to selected clever poor kids, presumably to save them from the state sector, is a charitable purpose. I would have similar views on assisted places - state schools need funding and running properly

My DH did. He feels it was a life changing opportunity for him and he'd bring them back in a heartbeat.

@Sidslaw 4 of us took the entrance exam from the primary school I went to. 2 of us passed, 2 didn't and the 2 that didn't went to the local comp. I know at GCSE my grades were higher than the 2 that went to the comp and by a fair margin. Neither of them went to uni as far as I'm aware. They were both really academically competent from what I remember at primary, we were all put on the same table, all did well in tests etc.

but you were more academically able - they failed the test, you passed, so on that basis alone, surely you would expect to do better in the long run

The local school, and only state school, where I was thought getting 3 grade A maths at GCSE was a year worth celebrating. And no, it wasn't that private/selective schools creamed off the best. The majority of people went there from all levels.

The problem with the assisted place scheme was that it was up to the schools who got it.
So one local private chose by who would most benefit, so the awards went to pupils who really couldn't afford it. A lot were on full assisted places including uniform etc.
Another local private chose it by who qualified, but would benefit the school most. So they used to give a lot of theirs to people who were better off than a good number of others but knew how to play the system. (eg if you were self employed put a lot of money back into the business for the year before).

I don't totally agree with the going to the local comp and mixing with a more diverse group train of thought. Dh says that a lot as he thinks it's great. However I notice that all his friends (from his comp) were (and those he's kept up with) are all very similar to him-white middle class type. Whereas, at least partially due to the assisted place scheme, I had a far more diverse group of friends both in terms of class and racial profile.

@Sidslaw I'll never accept the fact I was more academically able. My mum was absolutely adamant I wasn't going to the local comp and borrowed money from my grandparents to pay for private tutoring to get me into the school. I know all of us were having private tutoring and I'm willing to bet I had a bit more.

I also think clever kids can just have a bad day when it comes down taking tests.

One of the best quotes from a teacher I have read of how poverty affects educational outcomes was something like. How can I show my poorer students what opportunities they can have when they haven’t been further than the end of their own roads.

My parents were well travelled, both had lived overseas before they met. I was not privately educated and nor were they. Mother ended up being a manager for a branch of a business for a global firm and was the first woman in the UK to achieve this in the 1970’s. DH was privately educated, we met working at the same University on the same pay grade. DS was sent to a state school and got all A grades at A level.

DH and I are most definitely academic having worked in academia, there is a clear route to follow. People like my Mother who did not go to university and was ridiculously clever can not work their way up anymore.

Education feels like a business now and I’m glad I could retire early. My colleague said it well, University is now a glorified finishing school and less about education.

I did and had a very similar experience to you OP. I hated it, hated being the poor kid and hated the sneering superiority that so many there had - they really thought they were better than others because daddy had money.

I left, did my GCSEs at the local comp and got higher grades than any of them.

It made me realise how utterly divisive private schools are and I long for a day when all our state schools are well enough resourced that we don’t need them.

I did and it enabled me to get straight As, go to a top university and have a good career. I'd bring them back if possible. It was crap being the poor kid and I hated it when everyone else jetted off skiing in the winter etc but academically it was superb. I would have floundered at the local state schools, which were very poor in my area.

I had an assisted place and it was life changing. I was on FSM for a time. The assisted place was absolutely transformative for me.

I had an assisted place in the 90s. I didn't find it in any way embarrassing, but it might've been different in the 80s. There was a huge trend for grunge and wearing scruffy secondhand clothes clothes. All the music we listened to were working class heroes.
Bring wealthy and flashing the cash was viewed with absolute scorn.

I got a place at an academic and highly competitive grammar school in the 80s. I and my dsis were the only kids in the whole school on free school meals.

My class mates were mostly children of wealthy professionals - swimming pools and ponies at home, cars on their 17th birthdays etc. It was OK, the school did not tolerate bullying at all, and generally they were a civilised bunch.

I went on to university despite my df doing everything he could to stop me. He did not believe the uk should waste money educating women. The school were brilliant, fought for financial support for me with the local council, helped me apply - got me through. As a result I have a life/career that I would not otherwise have had. So the system worked for me, I will always be grateful for their help.

I have one DS. The state school we were offered was chaotic and the trust was wound up a year after DS would have joined because Ofsted said pupils were not safe. I am a single mum but ds won a scholarship to a non-selective private school. It's a stretch financially but he is happy and the school is academically strong.

Rather than assisted places, independent schools should be required to offer a number of scholarships as part of their charitable status (as most do). At ds' primary school there was a girl who got an A* in GCSE Maths in year 6. She was exceptional, no pushy parents, she just had a maths head and maths was her hobby. State schools do not have the time or resources to cater well for the exceptional child so scholarships are a viable alternative.

@OnTheSofaAllNight You may have had academic coaching but you were probably the exception in the 80s. It was not so widespread as now.

I certainly wasn't.

I had an assisted place at a private girls' grammar school in the 80s (along with my twin sister and later my younger sister). I wouldn't say the schoolfriends who came from well-off families went out of their way to belittle those of us from poorer backgrounds. But as a self conscious teenager, I did feel inferior/different when they talked about their skiing holidays or weekends in their second homes and spent money on the latest designer clothes, when we did UK camping holidays and shopped in bargain basement places. That may have been teenage insecurity more than anything. I do feel I received an excellent education and definitely really enjoyed my school years.

DH is also privately educated although wasn't on an assisted place. Our two daughters have thrived in the state education system and we have no regrets about not choosing the private route, much as I'm aware that we can only say that in hindsight!

@MintJulia I dare say that's very true.

For me, there was no way I would have got into the school without tutoring. My primary school had not prepared to answer the majority of the questions in the exams. From what I remember I had 3 additional English sessions and 6 maths sessions. I don't remember much about them except being told how to use semicolons and to definitely use them in the creative writing section of the exam. I'd never heard of a semicolon before.

I had a place but it was at a totally not academic private school. It was small and community focused, so everybody knew who had the assisted places. Outwardly I tried to style it out. Inwardly I felt "less-than". I also came from a single parent home though and that was frowned upon, so it added into the mix. I never let on I cared if anybody knew I had an AP, but I did feel different.

I don't think it should be known which pupils have them. But it's also quite easy to guess who the families are. I

I really appreciate everyone's replies, it's been an interesting read. I can see we had a mixed bag of experiences. I guess there are so many variables about this, some being our home circumstances, the ethos of the schools we went to and overall how much support we received to navigate our circumstances.

I'm pleased some of us had a good experience but it's also good to know I wasn't the only one who felt they were an outsider.

If you don't know already, The Sutton Trust has done a bit of research into this and we all seem to reflect the research in one way or another. I'd love to see an update though.

When I had my first baby early 80s I heard the children coming out of the local comp and declared there and then that none of mine would go there! Every other word was f...🤦‍♀️ I had no idea at the time how I would achieve this but I was determined.

First two had fully funded assisted places in private grammar school having also passed the 11+ for state grammar in the next county without any tutoring. They had stopped the system by my third but he got a full scholarship at the same school I'm sure in part because his brothers' were known for their high exam results ( no idea why they were all so bright, although I went to a state grammar school I was not allowed to stay on for A levels by my parents).

For part of that time we were on benefits but I don't think they were bothered by others turning up in Rolls Royce with mother arriving in a works van to collect them. Later I was at university myself with an nhs bursary for which am eternally grateful as allowed us to get off benefits and for me to be able to earn enough money to provide . Guess it depends on the children, mine were never bothered about having named trainers/clothes etc and didn't want to go on expensive skiing trips etc. They all still have friends from their school days so I don't think they had any problems getting on with people a lot better off than us. I suspect they would have had more problems fitting in at the local comp as despite being poor they were all quite geeky/academic.

I do think there should be some kind of system which makes better provision for the differences in children's needs, whether that is because they are exceptionally bright or SEN.

I won a full means tested scholarship to a private secondary school and it was the best thing that could ever have happened to me.

The education, the environment, it was fantastic. I definitely felt "other" though...the cars at drop off...the lifestyle of the other kids, their houses. I was sometimes teased and I hated non uniform day as my clothes were not as fancy as others.

BUT I found like minded kids from more ordinary families and we are friends to this day.

I swerved the 20 year school reunion a few years ago and was satisfied to see from the photos that many of the odious girls resembled sofas 🤪