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Six year old has become really whiny and over reacts to every.little.thing. Any parenting book / approaches recommended.

28 replies

GrabbyGabby · 03/09/2023 08:35

Have 2 kids, 8y.o and 6 y.o.

For context, 8 y.o. Has ADHD and ASD, we have a low demand approach to parenting with her to minimise violent meltdowns, which has been working really well for her.

6 y.o., as far as we know is NT. She is v bright (was reading pretty fluently when she started reception). She has always been a bit whingy, but recently this has cranked up to 11. Everything is a drama. She says really unkind things when she is in a temper. She has started having massive tantrums over very small things.

I am struggling to know how to work with her. Low demand is not the right parenting approach for her, but more traditional approaches (consequences, rewards etc) are so very different to low demand that I am sure from her perspective it just doesn't feel fair.

Any recommendations on books/parenting approaches?

OP posts:
gamerchick · 03/09/2023 08:37

I wouldn't assume she's NT if she has the same parents. Girls present differently to boys. I'd get her assessed.

off · 03/09/2023 08:37

was reading pretty fluently when she started reception

With an autistic older sibling, and something that could potentially be hyperlexia, depending on the details, how sure are you about the NT thing?

TheYearOfSmallThings · 03/09/2023 08:40

When you say recently, is it just during the summer holidays? A lot of children do best with a routine.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

GrabbyGabby · 03/09/2023 08:45

Hmm, yes has cranked up during the holidays. BRING ON SCHOOL!

I do keep an open mind about neuro diversity. She is really sociable, total chatter box, very empathetic. The recent tantrums don't seem to be like the complete meltdowns her sister has.

I dont know what hyperlexia is, will look it up.

OP posts:
off · 03/09/2023 08:49

Some autistic children teach themselves to read, read earlier than usual, and have a fascination with the written word. There are also some children who don't turn out to be autistic (some of whom may have some similar traits but don't meet ASD criteria) who do the same thing, of course. But there's a strong link.

atthebottomofthehill · 03/09/2023 08:50

Agree I wouldn't assume NT just because is different to sister. Being able to read early and having a very vivid imagination and being almost over empathetic are very common amongst autie girls.

On the other hand maybe she's struggling with general summer and maybe with having a sister who struggles.

GrabbyGabby · 03/09/2023 08:55

Deffo not hyperlexia. She doesn't memorise text really, she is fine with spoken word. She chats non stop.

I dont think she is over empathetic. She is just really genuinely kind when others are in distress, but doesnt get too caught up.

The only other unusual thing is that she has her books in a specific order on her shelf. She knows where they all are, and where they should go back. This is only her books tho, nothing else.

OP posts:
BlackberryCrumbs · 03/09/2023 08:58

I think it's pretty common at this age. They're getting used to having a lot of autonomy quite suddenly at 6 but then a firm no to other things and tears or tantrums can be the result.

We have similar with ds6. He's so well behaved much of the time, NT, bright etc. Never really had toddler tantrums and has always been laid back.

But the last few months we've had a few fits of tears and whining and ultimate drama. 8pm bedtime - 5 minutes before bed, he wants a sandwich which is declined (huge dinner plus dessert at 5.30, absolutely not in need of food!). Tears, begging, whining, him telling us 'but I'm literally STARVING, you're going to STARVE me, pleeeaaasssseeee' etc. Then ultimate huff and stomping from the room.

So. Much. Drama.

off · 03/09/2023 09:01

Hyperlexia doesn't involve memorising text, or preclude good spoken language. I'm not trying to persuade you that she is/was hyperlexic, as I know nothing about how she learnt to read or her interests, but whatever definition you're reading seems to be misleading.

And personally, I think anyone who doesn't have a specific place for each book must be some kind of weirdo Wink

NeverDropYourMooncup · 03/09/2023 09:06

But it is blatantly unfair that she gets the full on 'You have to tidy your room/go to bed when I say/can't have a biscuit/stop whingeing/you've always been so whiny/you're just having a tantrum/I'll reward you when you do something worth rewarding' when her sister gets the 'low demand, of course you can have a new toy or ice cream like your sister who had to work for it or there will be violent meltdowns' parenting.

GrabbyGabby · 03/09/2023 10:42

You are not wrong mooncup. It is so hard having 2 kids that seem to need very different approaches to parenting. Consequences do not work for my eldest, they are counter productive, generally result in huge meltdowns and she learns nothing from them. She only has consequences if she hurts her sister, and that is more for her sister to understand that this is not acceptable.

The younger one would i think benefit from a more structured approach to parenting, but hard to achieve when the other is low demand.

@off this is where I got the definition of hyperlexia
https://www.asdclinic.co.uk/conditions/hyperlexia/index.php

She seemed to teach herself to read. We certainly didnt do anything beyond reading at bed time. Around her 4th birthday we started noticing she was reading signs and billboards, stuff that she couldn't have memorised. Before that she was reading books, but we had assumed she had just memorised what we had read to her several times

Hyperlexia | Conditions | ASD clinic.co.uk | Social, behavioural & communication therapy

Find out about our Hyperlexia Services at ASD Clinic

https://www.asdclinic.co.uk/conditions/hyperlexia/index.php

OP posts:
BorrowedThyme · 03/09/2023 10:44

do not respond to a whiny voice, ever. And say so if they are not getting the message. " I only respond to proper voices".

GrabbyGabby · 03/09/2023 10:45

I tell her i dont speak Whinese.

OP posts:
CupOfCoffeePlease · 03/09/2023 10:46

Ha I was going to reply "low demand parenting" to your title before I read the thead!!

i think sometimes when weve had to make accomodations for one child we can be overly harsh on the other one.

Without needing to label at all child 2 is struggling with the big emotions of life. Making life a little bit easier for her won't harm anyone will it?! (Kids do well if they can and all that.)

CupOfCoffeePlease · 03/09/2023 10:48

Meltdowns can look so different from child to child.

It's still worth looking for/avoiding triggers. Helping to scaffold activities/demands, having clear instructions about what's happening now and next.

Doing the normal- looking for triggers for your second child, look at what leads to them. She's still only 6 so may need more support than you think.

GrabbyGabby · 03/09/2023 10:54

Hmm, maybe we do expect a bit too much of her. She is such a conundrum. One minute telling me in pretty convincing detail detail why pi is such an important number and the next throwing an epic strop because she wants to sit on a chair her sister is on or she got one less crisp.

A good reminder to go back to basics a bit maybe.

OP posts:
maidmarianne · 03/09/2023 10:55

BlackberryCrumbs · 03/09/2023 08:58

I think it's pretty common at this age. They're getting used to having a lot of autonomy quite suddenly at 6 but then a firm no to other things and tears or tantrums can be the result.

We have similar with ds6. He's so well behaved much of the time, NT, bright etc. Never really had toddler tantrums and has always been laid back.

But the last few months we've had a few fits of tears and whining and ultimate drama. 8pm bedtime - 5 minutes before bed, he wants a sandwich which is declined (huge dinner plus dessert at 5.30, absolutely not in need of food!). Tears, begging, whining, him telling us 'but I'm literally STARVING, you're going to STARVE me, pleeeaaasssseeee' etc. Then ultimate huff and stomping from the room.

So. Much. Drama.

I get that the whining and drama is a complete nightmare, but how do you know they aren't hungry 2.5 hours after tea? I would be!

NorwayLass · 03/09/2023 11:06

She sounds unhappy. Does she feel well loved? Are her emotional needs met? Does she get quality positive time 1:1 with parents?

Has the eldest taken a lot of focus and time away from the youngest?

NeverDropYourMooncup · 03/09/2023 11:08

GrabbyGabby · 03/09/2023 10:45

I tell her i dont speak Whinese.

But it gets her older sibling exactly what she wants - why shouldn't it work for her? In child logic, this could lead to her concluding that the only way for her to get anything is to have violent meltdowns just like her big sister.

If one has low demand parenting (seen by other children as 'getting her own way everytime, all of the time'), then the other has to. Otherwise you're telling her that the eldest is your favourite and you don't love her as much. Which would make any child, ND or NT, unhappy and feeling unloved - and if she does happen to be ND herself, she's being let down in it not being identified due to her sibling's needs always taking priority.

off · 03/09/2023 12:41

Thanks Grabby. It's a little rigid; this seems a better overview to me: https://www.webmd.com/children/what-is-hyperlexia

Hyperlexia is not, for the most part, an official diagnosis that's given out, and the criteria can depend where you're looking. It's also not specifically used in the ASD diagnosis criteria (as you presumably already know given your experience). I mentioned it because something that could be described as hyperlexia is common enough among autistic children (compared to non-autistic children) that "early/self-taught reader" always makes my ears prick up, if there's any other reason to be thinking along the lines of autism. But it's not always as cut and dried as the lists online.

Using myself as an example of what few people would dispute as hyperlexia:

I learnt to read without instruction, maybe from being able to see the page while my parents were reading me stories. I've been told I began recognising symbols (like sweetie brands, maybe) at 18m, by 2 I would read out the front of each food packet as my mum put shopping in the trolley, and by my 3rd birthday, I could apparently read pretty much any text fluently and accurately (with occasional mispronunciations of unfamiliar words with ambiguous spelling, or sometimes misplaced emphasis in long sentences), to myself or out loud. My understanding would be that of a typical 3yo, of course — autistic hyperlexia isn't necessarily an intelligence thing, more a quirk combined with a passion Grin Obviously some children who read early do so because they're just very intelligent, not because they're autistic.

At infant school, they assessed reading ages and I came out at 14+, i.e. adult, on the test they used. And at pretty much at all times when I wasn't actively required to do something else, I'd be reading, right through to early adolescence. I even think in a kind of text ticker-tape most of the time.

I guess that's a fairly extreme version; it doesn't have to be quite that early to count as hyperlexia, just earlier than expected — it can describe someone with LD who might not be expected to learn to read at the usual time who nevertheless does, for example.

I know these things about myself mostly because of all the forms my mum had to fill in when I went for an NHS assessment for ASD, which I was then diagnosed with. There were (many) other signs in my childhood, but they're not ones that necessarily appear on some of the hyperlexia lists — not responding to being addressed but having no hearing problem when tested; serious behavioural problems especially at school; social problems at school; extreme sensory sensitivities and restricted diet; speaking like a little adult or in full sentences; eating paper, a lot, for years and years, despite getting into trouble repeatedly for ruining books (I never ate the bits with words! Grin); being described by adults as "tactless" or "gullible" or "different"; etc. etc. etc.

My speech development was entirely un-delayed, though, with an advanced vocabulary (all that bloody reading…), no echolalia, and no difficulty understanding spoken language or initiating conversations. My eye contact was fine. By that list I wouldn't qualify as hyperlexic. But there are so many people like me — with this type of early and obsessive reading and an ASD diagnosis, but who weren't overtly impaired in verbal communication — that I think the construct needs to be rethought a little, to include subtler signs of communication difficulty in particular, and ASD in general.

The hyperlexia construct is still very immature, essentially, and should really just be seen as suggestive at most, IMO. Early reading doesn't necessarily mean hyperlexia and hyperlexia doesn't necessarily mean autism. But they do go together enough that, like I said, hearing "early reader" when there's a possibility of autism (like maybe there are other signs, or it's in the family) does get my attention — the WebMD article I linked has some interesting but seemingly unsourced stats.

I'm sorry, I've gone way off on one, just in case any of this is interesting/useful/relevant to you. It's entirely possible that your DD is just an intelligent little girl who therefore learnt to read a little earlier than some other children, and completely unrelatedly happens to have an autistic sibling and to be struggling with a tough patch of behaviour and maybe a double standard in expectations. And that sentence wasn't meant to sound sarcastic; I genuinely think it's possible, maybe even likely. I just wanted you to be aware of the fact that sometimes there can be a link between autism and early reading, and it doesn't always fit the rigid pattern of the checklists.

GrabbyGabby · 03/09/2023 13:42

Really interesting @off@off. My gut says she is just a bit precocious and is going through a whiny phase but really good to be more informed on this l.

Mooncup, you are spectacularly missing the point. Low demand parent for my youngest is every bit as much the wrong type of parenting as reward/consequences is for my eldest. The littler one needs structure and boundaries. This is the dilemma every parent faces with a mix of NT and ND kids.

Have spent today doing a bit of love bombing and whinging has decreased. I think just a bit of back to basics.

OP posts:
user1492757084 · 03/09/2023 13:48

Take your daughter for a general checkup.
She might be coping with a chronic illness of which you are not aware. Make sure she gets to bed on time and that she is eating fresh, wholesome food.

Ear aches, tooth ache, back pain, poor eye sight, Diabetes etc are challenging and kids can behave really poorly when sick.

NameChange30 · 03/09/2023 13:54

You can do low demand parenting with structure and boundaries. Just needs to be more flexible and collaborative. Not saying it's easy (we are doing our best and not always succeeding!)
I really think you need to try and align your approaches for each child as much as you can; try and find ways to be consistent and fair with each of them, meeting both their needs as much as possible.
My oldest is ND and my youngest NT, as far as I can tell... DC1 takes up so much attention and mental energy that poor DC2 does suffer a bit. We have to make a conscious effort to try and keep things fair and balanced. (Again, not saying we always manage it.)
Your youngest might still be autistic, just presenting differently. Either way, ND or NT, sounds like she needs attention and a bit of "indulging" (I mean giving her choice, having fun with her, saying yes as much as possible).

Girasoli · 03/09/2023 13:58

It's tricky especially as she is the youngest - different approaches work best for my 7 and 3 year olds but it's easy to explain "yes, but he's only 3" to my 7 year old when things seem a bit unfair.

Do you think she'd respond ok to an explanation that her sister has autism so you have to do things a bit differently with her? My DS1 has classmates that are allowed to for e.g. fidget toys or walk about when the rest of them are sitting and the other DC accept it.

Newgirls · 03/09/2023 13:59

This might sound really basic but is she eating enough? Protein etc? Looking back when mine got like this we had seriously under estimated how much food she needed and she was too busy to ask for food/realise. Growth spurt then came along.