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Original poster

Concrete in schools

175 replies

lemonyaid · 31/08/2023 15:25

How have they only just now decided to close the buildings until they are safe? Has someone been injured?

OP posts:
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18
MMorales · 31/08/2023 21:07

noblegiraffe · 31/08/2023 17:54

You think the govt are doing the inspections? No, they told schools and councils to do it.

And then were baffled when schools and councils didn't have the time or resources to complete their survey asking schools and councils whether they'd found any.

In June this year the govt set up a call centre to phone schools to ask them why they hadn't done the survey. Presumably because they have no money, time or staff.

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/dfe-sets-up-call-centre-as-raac-survey-snub-baffles-ministers/

So the schools that are being closed are the ones that the govt knows about.

Show quote history

It just gets worse and worse.

And I dont know how they're gonna fix all the hospitals affected

Mysteriousgirl2 · 31/08/2023 21:10

noblegiraffe · 31/08/2023 16:25

I mean, I posted this in December last year when the threat of schools collapsing was upgraded to very likely, and we're nearly in September and they're still pissing around not saying which schools are at risk. They are actively letting those parents send their kids into schools where there's a risk of injury or death and not telling them because the parents would rightly kick off.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4703940-risk-of-school-buildings-in-england-collapsing-upgraded-to-very-likely

I remember your post about this last year. Absolutely shocking that the govt has failed to act properly.

What we need now is a clear and solid plan; a list of what schools are affected, what the timescales are and, unfortunately, an action plan for examination years in 2024 if the disruption is lengthly.

There are too many unknowns at the moment.

Oblomov23 · 31/08/2023 21:13

Disgusting. 2 buildings fell over months ago, prompting government to be scared and over cautious, but the government has known about this for years and they've done nothing about it for years. Become more well known in the recent months and now all of a sudden this scares them. But why close schools suddenly for safety? they could've done lots of Repairs all over the summer. But didn't. utterly disgusting.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

General education
VikingVolva · 31/08/2023 22:08

lavenderlou · 31/08/2023 20:14

As I posted upthread, this was Labour's BSF programme which made a good start in the mid-2000s but was immediately cancelled when the coalition government took power. Some projects were cancelled right at the last minute.

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Yes, I know it was cancelled after the GE of 2010, that's why I said throughout the 00s

But's what not remotely clear is whether they actually prioritised making schools with this type of construction safe - as they had the budget and the issue was known. IIRC, fixing concrete wasn't a criterion for prioritisation of works at all.

I'm not even sure they carried out a full audit/inspection in order to allow prioritisation. Which is a shame, as they had money to spend and could have tackled this (and not just in schools). It came to light in the late 90s, and the money didn't start to run out until 2008.

noblegiraffe · 31/08/2023 22:20

BSF was PFI.

lavenderlou · 31/08/2023 22:44

Yes BSF was majorityPFI funded and project-managed by Local Authorities themselves who had to meet certain "ready-to-deliver" criteria. A lot of it seemed to be about improving facilities but I would assume structural surveys would have to have taken place before any works began. Projects were only realised in a relatively small number of Local Authorities as it sounds like the process was a bit cumbersome and lacked central organisation.

However, certainly an improvement on the naff all that seems to have been invested over the following years.

noblegiraffe · 01/09/2023 00:39

Headteacher on Newsnight confirming that instead of the government getting experts to assess the safety of school buildings, they asked headteachers whether their school was affected.

His response was 'How would we know, we're headteachers not architects'

https://x.com/bbcnewsnight/status/1697369315274604705?s=61&t=U9XrcF693-JpMxeIueYG7g

I mean, given that they knew that schools were highly likely to collapse, shouldn't they have done a bit better than sending headteachers a survey?

https://x.com/bbcnewsnight/status/1697369315274604705?s=61&t=U9XrcF693-JpMxeIueYG7g

DuncinToffee · 01/09/2023 09:18

Schools minister Nick Gibb 'doesn't know' how many schools will have to close over unsafe concrete

He als confirmed that the government will pay for alternative accommodation, such as portacabins, for schools affected by RAAC

SerendipityJane · 01/09/2023 09:21

DuncinToffee · 01/09/2023 09:18

Schools minister Nick Gibb 'doesn't know' how many schools will have to close over unsafe concrete

He als confirmed that the government will pay for alternative accommodation, such as portacabins, for schools affected by RAAC

And the additional travelling expenses ? And the time lost to having to move kids around boroughs, towns and counties ?

noblegiraffe · 01/09/2023 09:24

Schools minister Nick Gibb 'doesn't know' how many schools will have to close over unsafe concrete

That's because there's not even a list of schools that have it.

SerendipityJane · 01/09/2023 09:27

DuncinToffee · 01/09/2023 09:18

Schools minister Nick Gibb 'doesn't know' how many schools will have to close over unsafe concrete

He als confirmed that the government will pay for alternative accommodation, such as portacabins, for schools affected by RAAC

To be fair that's not his job though.

noblegiraffe · 01/09/2023 09:29

What's not his job? Knowing about things the government is doing that will affect schools?

spanieleyes · 01/09/2023 09:32

Any ideas where these 5-700 portacabins are going to come from before next week?

DuncinToffee · 01/09/2023 09:33

And the additional travelling expenses ? And the time lost to having to move kids around boroughs, towns and counties ?

Case by case basis apparently

Here on ITV

https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1697521846743077046?s=20

The schools minister, Nick Gibb, found out (again) on #GMB. It turns out the @NEUnion is right - the govt will not cover all the costs incurred by schools closing. The govt will cover 'capital costs', but 'revenue costs' will be discussed with schools on a case by case basis.

toomuchlaundry · 01/09/2023 09:34

Where will the portacabins go? If construction work is required surely builders will take up a chunk of the playground. There is a reason most school building maintenance/repairs takes place in the summer holidays

DuncinToffee · 01/09/2023 09:35

spanieleyes · 01/09/2023 09:32

Any ideas where these 5-700 portacabins are going to come from before next week?

Tory donors? Someone's pub land lord friend?

toomuchlaundry · 01/09/2023 09:37

How are schools going to afford this? Hire of portacabins can cost a fortune

SerendipityJane · 01/09/2023 09:37

spanieleyes · 01/09/2023 09:32

Any ideas where these 5-700 portacabins are going to come from before next week?

I spent half my childhood in portacabin classrooms. In a school with no kitchen as they were converted to classrooms. And the walk across the field to the "huts" with their asbestos roofs (they were condemned long before).

Never did me no harm.

But, as we learned, the state school results were just too good - no point sending your kids to a private school if they won't get better grades. Thank goodness that was sorted. Imagine a country where private education doesn't produce the best results ?

SerendipityJane · 01/09/2023 09:38

toomuchlaundry · 01/09/2023 09:37

How are schools going to afford this? Hire of portacabins can cost a fortune

Maybe a bulk buy of garden sheds from Wilkos ?

noblegiraffe · 01/09/2023 09:38

Some schools already closed in April and June. In one case they were shunted to another school building that had closed due to falling rolls. In another they were farmed out to various other schools, which changed each term.

I don't think the schools have reopened yet, so not a quick fix.

wellandtruly · 01/09/2023 09:47

My local primary school juniors are moving to a local semi-empty secondary school.

DuncinToffee · 01/09/2023 10:30

A school's concrete beam collapsed during the summer and that has led the new safety warnings.

noblegiraffe · 01/09/2023 10:35

Because the school ceiling collapsing in 2018 without warning (it looked fine the day before) wasn't enough evidence that it was unsafe.

Because the threat level of a collapse being 'critical' wasn't good enough and they waited till it was upgraded to 'highly likely' to take action 3 months later in the form of sending out a questionnaire.

There have been further collapses since 2018, but no, this one in the summer was the one that meant something had to be done.

cansu · 01/09/2023 10:40

How would the headteachers know what the school was built with? Surely the government should be asking local authorities to discover who built the school and they need to ask them?