Moving abroad... where?

[Fatmamslim]

We are considering relocating abroad for a few years. Honestly I haven't done any thinking or research beyond these initial thoughts because I can't quite pin where, and I know each location will require its own heavy research. Honestly we just need a change.

I'd like to maybe do Finland, Or new Zealand maybe. Somewhere known for good quality of life, good health care and education.

We are a family of 4. One preteen and one under10. The preteen is holding us back in exploring further because moving during senior school years feels hugely disruptive, but if we wait for him to be finished the younger one will have started and I don't think we'll ever go...

Has anyone here move abroad.. did you end up staying? Did you come back? What was hardest about it all?

Honestly I haven't done any thinking or research beyond these initial thoughts

yes that’s clear by fact you’re even asking the open ended question 😂

What do you do for a living? A lot of countries want certain jobs and make the visa process very easy for that but outside of that it can be VERY hard. Do you speak any other languages?

Well, surely you can limit the need for ‘research’ by establishing which countries will allow you to immigrate, and saying more about your own qualifications, field of work and languages? For Finland, for instance, to stay for longer than three months as a tourist, you will need a job to be sponsored for a visa, or to prove you can be self-employed.

I am not originally from the UK, but lived there for many years, and have moved around the world a fair bit.

As above, look at what visa you could get for any particular country. Remember that the income of the person with the work permit will need to be enough to support all 4 of you. Both adults getting a visa with working rights will take some doing.

Don't move a secondary school child to s country where the education system is in another language. They are highly unlikely to be up to the required language level and up to speed on a different curriculum, school/college types, teaching techniques and exam systems in time to get good qualifications. You would need to be able to afford the fees for an international school

DH and I are thinking similarly. I am not from the UK though (but don't want to go to my home country) and we did live abroad for 10 years.

What we did was...

went to paris last year and sat in a cafe and plotted out on paper every place we could think of then narrowed it down to 5 places.

The plan was to then spend a couple of weeks in each location over the next few years to get a feel with the aim to narrow down further, look at real estate and immigration requirements etc. Luckily we are very flexible regarding work.

And that is where we are at now. No further on an actual decision. Great holidays in the Channel Islands and Greece though.

Frankly you do need to do some research for this type of huge life change as this sounds quite a naive dream at the moment! Why haven’t you looked into it?? We spent two years doing this before making our move to Asia. Def don’t assume a change of scenery solves all your problems or boredom - no where is perfect and the pressure on families in this type of move is huge. Obvious things to look into = right to work / visas, school / exam system if you aren’t going to pay for private British education there, cost of living, tax system for expats, risk of loss of UK residency, National insurance impact, health care systems etc etc. We had a lot of support through my employer. If you don’t already have a job in an international industry I understand it is often pretty hard to secure decent jobs and many countries have unemployment issues already (in ours priority is given to Nationals) so look into that too.

You need to narrow it down and check visa eligibility. NZ for example is very restrictive.

Honestly, your timing sucks, pre-teen is how old? Let's say 12 and just started secondary, so assume it takes a year to get organised, visas, find jobs, etc then they'll be 13 and say Y8. Go for 3 to 4 years, and they'll be 16-17 and into final exams, depending on which schooling system you pick. And then, if you stay for them to finish, your youngest will be starting. Alternatively, you go for just 2 years and be back to start GSCE, but will you get a school place, is it worth the cost and upheaval? And what are the kids' personalities it can be challenging for teens to move about - some thrive on it, some struggle. I think you either need to plan to do something very short term or very long term, ie for their whole secondary schooling.

So anyway, for planning I'd start with listing out countries you are interested in and then researching

• Where can you get Visas/Where is the work?
• How are you all at languages - does it need to be English speaking, predominately English speaking or are you happy to learn a new language? Think about this from work, schooling and socialising/home life.
• What education system do you want? Can you afford international schools or will you go local? Can this see your kids all the way through to final exams?
• Income levels and cost of living - how does it compare to your current life, what additional expenses will you have (ie education or travel home)

If you really want to do it, then I genuinely hope it happens but you really need to do a lot of planning.

Personally speaking, we moved when the kids were tiny, and have been through 3 countries in this time and now we'll stay where we are until they both finish secondary school. Where they go to University is an open question, the eldest has three countries in his sights including the UK and the younger definitely wants the UK, so maybe we'll end up back there. We've loved every minute but it can be tough when you are new to a country and it's more expensive than you think especially as parents age you need to 'go home' more often. But it has been a wonderful experience and as a family, we're very tight-knit and had some incredible experiences

What jobs do you do and what is your income? You really need to start there.

I agree you need to think of the practicalities first, like where can you move with whatever passport you hold and not too long a visa process, what languages can yoy already speak, where could you get a job reasonably easily?

Can you even speak Finnish op? If not how on earth are you going to feed yourself?

Maybe Finland
Maybe New Zealand

mor maybe very unhappy and floundering around for a change but not willing to even do the tiniest bit of research

I definitely understand your urge to live abroad and explore for a bit. But I do think you should wait it out until your children have grown up. If they were a few years younger, I’d say go for it. But a preteen will find that really disruptive and probably won’t be great for them. (My family moved when I was 11, it wasn’t good for me or my sibling. I often wish my parents had just waited another seven years. And so do they now.)

Over the next nine (?) years, why not explore the places on your list? Plan exciting holidays there. Make pros and cons, find out how realistic it would be to work and live there. Your DC would probably really enjoy visiting you or perhaps living with you for a while when they’re 18+ and it’s their decision.

If you like Finland and New Zealand, maybe add Denmark, Switzerland, Canada and Sweden to your list?

Thinking more about this from your op "Honestly we just need a change. "
Could you move within the UK to achieve this?

I think even a move within the uk is really disruptive when you’re a preteen. To me, no difference to moving abroad.

I’m sure it works for some kids. But I don’t know any who moved at that age and found it great. Unless their current school / friendship groups are problematic, of course.

Thanks for all the replies guys!

Never fails to amaze how some can't help but reply with such a sharpness 🤣 so unnecessary.

I agree, RE senior years. I am somewhat frustrated by the timing that only now would be in a potential position workwise to do so. I agree it would have been much better if possible when they were little.

And yes, my post was all a bit whimsical, open ended etc. I'm currently sat on a boat eating dinner in the Spanish sunshine and I just wanted to "think out loud" via mumsnet since it was on my mind today and DH and I can't discuss in front of the children, and we won't be off the boat until tomorrow.

To answer some other questions, I can speak a little Spanish but certainly not enough to move anywhere without English as a predominant language. The preteen would like to continue learning Spanish, the youngest I suspect would struggle to pick up another language maybe.

Combined income is around £150k annually after tax. I am the higher earner, I can work anywhere. DH is a trade. Savings of around the same amount.

We have no problems at home, if anything we have a very nice life with loving family etc.

We've had some friends and acquaintances move since brexit and more since the pandemic, and I began to wonder if we should be considering life outside our bubble.

It really is as simple as that. A thought at the moment between dh and I over evening wine. A theme that reoccurs. I'm not about to book flights and pack up the kids with little more thought, perhaps I should have posted "if you could move anywhere in the world where would you go?" And enjoy everyone's equally whimsical thoughts.

Honestly we just need a change.

sounded less whimsical and pretty desperate to me

If you can work from anywhere, so presumably thinking you could keep your current job, then actually you’re restricted by countries which offer digital nomad visas.

How about Barbados? Has a 12 month digital nomad programme. Sign your preteen up for Interhigh or similar so they don’t have to switch school systems. Sell the family on the Caribbean lifestyle for a year! No local tax to pay, time it right so you don’t pay UK tax for that time.

DH and I have worked abroad in Africa, Australia and Italy and I'm itching to go again but since having DD/being homeowners since we moved back to the uk we have discussed many places but not done it, as it's not as straight forward now.
I think actually living in another country and dealing with all the ball ache that comes with it is a totally different experience than being on holiday, but if you want to and can your kids will cope.

I think you should think about somewhere where you already speak some of the local language.

More of a "life's got quite samey" and we are craving a change. But sure, read it as you like!

Well in that case - bit drastic to uproot your kids on a whim!

Actually it felt initially like a "wouldn't it be wonderful to provide our children such an experience" but as I say, very aware that the timing probably isn't suited to that being the reality. Maybe when they were smaller.

Perhaps we focus on travelling as much as we can Instead.

Ok- your easiest and best bet first of all is to go online and look where you can get a nomad visa for. - these are not that complicated if you can work anywhere , earn over about £35k a year (quantifiable) plus£10k or so extra per family member , you have to pay for private health insurance and you can't work in that country's employment market for varying periods (Spain it's year) so your H couldn't be a plumber for instance - it doesn't really work either if you are an employee of a British company because of taxation , 'unless 'they allow you to become a self employed contractor. Spain, Greece, Germany are all on the list, Scandinavia isn't, nor are Netherlands or France if I remember correctly. Obviously pre Brexit none of this would have applied within EU.

So helpful! Thank you.