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So now all I need to do is save up 300K--is this for real?

540 replies

Coffeetree · 30/08/2023 07:35

An article from This Is Money showed up on my feed this morning. Basically someone with £290K in pension pots at 50 years old, asking whether they're on the right track for retirement. The rest of the article was various investment advice. Generally the advice was "You're nearly there."

I read these articles and I feel like someone is playing a joke on me. I usually feel very very privileged in that, at 52, I have a mortgage that I'll hopefully be able to pay off in 4 years, plus about £50K in pensions. No inheritances on the horizon. I've worked in charities my whole life, then became single about five years ago, hence not much saved.

So, after paying off my mortgage, I then need to buckle down and save up 300K? That's not going to happen. My plan is to keep working and then go part-time or contract when I reach retirement age.

Am I the only one who thinks these "retirement advice" articles are really out-of-touch?

OP posts:
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BarbaraofSeville · 30/08/2023 09:17

They said if you want to continue living the same lifestyle as when you're working, in general you need to aim to save 10× your final salary

That's assuming that you need your whole salary to meet your current lifestyle needs.

I can save quite a lot out of my salary, while still living the lifestyle I want. When I retire, I won't need to be making pension contributions or pay NI, and I'll have the state pension. That considerably reduces the amount I need to top up from a separate pension to pay for the same lifestyle I have now.

JustHereWithMyPopcorn · 30/08/2023 09:18

I am in a similar position and currently have a DC at uni and another one likely attending in two years time. I have no spare money to start putting into a pension.

I have pensions of about 90k which I started when I was 25 and part of the reason they are that low is because over several years they took massive hits and lost more in one year than they had made in the previous three. I am currently unable to contribute more to those funds and have no inheritance coming. I guess we will probably have to sell the house and find somewhere smaller for the two of us when retirement comes.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

latetothefisting · 30/08/2023 09:18

ruby1957 · 30/08/2023 07:48

The figures they put out about how much you need to have a 'comfortable' retirement are pie in the sky.

I think the figures are around £50K pa for a couple and 25K for a singleton.
If these are today's figures they are unrealistic. If they are future projections there may be an argument for thinking those figures will apply.
I am well below those figures for a single pensioner and I manage because you can live quite frugally so long as you don't expect the same standard of living as when you were young.
No need to take a cruise or have expensive cars.

I always think this.

Dp and I don't spend anywhere near £50k annually including luxuries, and when I was single (pretty recently) I didn't spend (at that point didn't even EARN pre tax!) the £36.5k it's suggested a single person needs for a comfortable retirement https://www.sjp.co.uk/news/the-cost-of-a-comfortable-retirement and my life felt pretty comfortable. That's over the average wage in lots of places so it doesn't make sense to say you need MORE money in retirement than half the population earns while working (and for lots of people bringing up a family!).

Taking into account that if you own a house you won't still be paying your mortgage which is most peoples biggest outgoing (followed/exceeded by childcare which they are also not going to be paying out by retirement!) by then the figures seem grossly inflated to me.

Plus "retirement" can span such a long time - and what's luxury/basic necessities varies - I'd imagine I'd love to go on some amazing holidays if possible in mid/late sixties but realistically most 90 year olds aren't skiing or cruising - but conversely might need to spend a lot more on care than retired people 20 years younger.

UndercoverCop · 30/08/2023 09:19

15 years in the public sector could give you an ok defined benefit pension OP on top of what you have, in case you'd consider changing industries. MOJ and charities have a lot of overlap especially in practitioner roles or higher up in commissioning or partnerships roles

Rewis · 30/08/2023 09:19

I'm 33 now and when I was 28 there were tons of articles about pensioners that I noticed and got very worried about my pension. It feels impossible to save for pension, life and for a house (and there is no way I manage to pay that off in 30 years)
and still use money for things that I enjoy!

ChampagneLassie · 30/08/2023 09:20

I think average pension pot at retirement is around £35k so if that makes you feel any better. However this is probably skewed by people with DB pensions. If you’re looking to survive solely on a private pension of course you’ll need to work longer and put more in. But you also own a property so you could downsize / equity release.

mauvish · 30/08/2023 09:23

I think a few PP are confusing a pension pot with a savings pot.

If you have savings of 300k and use it over 30 years, that's 10k per year then it's gone. (Actually it would last longer than that as interest would continue to be added to the total figure).

If you have a pension pot of 300k, that will give you not far off 20k per year (before tax). (Extrapolating from personal experience - I have a public sector pension which I took early so is reduced to account for that).

Ideally you need money in both - savings that you can access for big purchases, and a pension that will reliably give you a monthly income.

People who are currently towards the end of their working lives should get state pension. You can check your entitlement on the govt website, and top it up if you can and need to - it's the best guaranteed investment going. Currently that's 10k/yr and will be topped up with pension credits etc if there's no other income at all. So to reach a pretax income of 30k, you'll need an extra 20k/year coming in - so that's your 300k pension pot. But will you need that amount? It's cheaper not to work than it is to work.

Younger people may not have the future security of a state pension as I doubt that's a financially tenable thing in the longterm. I read a couple of days ago that on current trends, of baby girls born in 2021, 1 in 4 will reach the age of 100! And no country can afford a pension bill like that.

Bowbobobo · 30/08/2023 09:23

Private Pension pots can go down as well as up, plus they cost money to run. In your shoes I would focus on: making sure your NI contributions will generate a full state pension, paying off the mortgage, getting a lodger now (hello £625 a month tax free), saving in cash ISAs and premium bonds, and working on your post-67 income-earning ideas. You’ll be fine.

DryIce · 30/08/2023 09:26

It is intimidating, OP, and I don't think there has been nearly enough financial education available for normal working people. However the reality is £300k is not a lot to fund an entire retirement - we are predicted to live well into our 80s now, so that's to last about 20 years.

Changes17 · 30/08/2023 09:29

@RosaGallica Jane Austen is still very much on the curriculum. DS just studied Pride & Prejudice for GCSE.

Agree with the pointlessness of being wedded to the £300k figure if you don’t have it. I’m a bit older than you and have similar. I think I’m going to be ok though - thanks largely to the state pension. Have almost contributed for 35 years, so that’s £10k a year. £3k a year from a pension in a previous job.

Hopefully can double SIPP pension savings to £100k by 67 by continuing to save as I am. (Maybe more when mortgage ends). By drawing down 5% a year should be able to preserve the capital. Then can downsize the house - I think that’s all reasonably liveable when no housing costs.

Secondwindplease · 30/08/2023 09:29

MidnightOnceMore · 30/08/2023 08:33

I'm glad your hard work plus your good luck paid off.

But you only have to look at the salary pyramid in each institution to see that most people are in lower paid jobs.

Not everyone can rise to the top, there isn't space. It's a competition. You won, but don't blame others for the fact there are so many places below you. They didn't make society any more than you did.

Just to weigh in here. There are certainly times when people are on limited incomes for reasons beyond their control, but equally sometimes it’s not all luck and people do actually reap what they sow.

I was the poor kid at school, which is saying something in a pretty poor ex-mining area, but I’m doing well for myself now. I left home at 16, partly because I knew I’d never get ahead if I stayed. There are times when I’ve had three jobs at once, worked for below minimum wage, done unpaid internships for months on end, lived in my overdraft etc. But ultimately now I have two degrees, a secure job, good pension, lovely house in a sought after town etc. I look at my old school friends, living on the same housing estate we grew up in with too many kids, and I do think it was judgement and not bloody luck that played the stronger role in determining our different fortunes.

You’re right that life is a competition. If I have a child (which I will consider very carefully), then I will tell them that as long as they are well in mind and body then they better set themselves to winning.

pontipinemum · 30/08/2023 09:33

CrossStitchX · 30/08/2023 08:08

Also the best thing we did in terms of savings for our kids was to start pensions for them when they were born. We pay in something like a tenner a month, they can't touch it until they are 60 and should grow significantly.

how did you do that? It never even occurred to me to do this. Will you ask your DC to take over their pension fund when they are old enough?

ItstimeToMoveagain · 30/08/2023 09:34

I'm 45 and have only had a private pension for a year so I'm stuffed. I live in council housing as well.

My pension is with the civil service though so I should find out how to put more in it each month

Appleofmyeye2023 · 30/08/2023 09:36

I am retired. I am “fortunate” to have a DB pension, but I didn’t start out wealthy, I was sole breadwinner due to my husbands mental illness for 18 years, we nearly “lost” out house due to debt at one point.
my Pension got to the level it did because I prioritised it. I could have left my company and earnt more elsewhere , but those companies would have no longer had DB schemes. i figured that more money now, and a riskier future wasn’t worth it. I stayed with my company for over 30 years but it also meant I had to move location twice over 200 miles uprooting my family. I spent the last 5 years of my career doing an international job, which sounds glamorous , but I was away from home so much, trying to juggle raising my dc and a mentally I’ll husband and it sent me to breaking point - hence why I had to take early retirement . But working for a company with DB meant I always HAD to save right form get go of working at young age. It was mandatory, so by time I retired I’d contributed for decades at a high rate. The company was also excellent at financially educating its workforce, and encouraging us to save more into AVCs , take advantage of tax allowances etc.

it on the question of pension provision I seethe frequently, it is one of the issues that I get most irate about politically and is swept under the carpet by politicians.

The issue is that quietly successive governments have put the burden of pensions onto individuals rather than a collective responsisiblty. They have, decades ago, removed tax advantages for employers to provide DB schemes. They have sold the public a piece of propaganda that raising NI to increase state pensions to a living amount is unaffordable to the public purse. This completely omits that individuals then need to pay 5-15% of their salary into a personal pension anyway as a default now. A proportion of that is paid by every single individual to pension management companies, financial institutions etc for admin and find management costs -at an enormously inflated price above what individuals would pay if spread collectively. These fees and sums being invested have lined the pockets of the already wealthy - creaming off money from every single poor or less wealthy employee being told this is only solution to ensure their financial security. No wonder the uk financial sector has bombed- all these millions of new individual pension pots with little sums and proportionally high running costs fees have made the financial industry rich and highly dependant on retirement investmens.

No party ever wanted to seriously consider other options, let alone ever told voters explicitly that an option would be to raise NI by say 10% - not popular but, jeez, it would be cheaper for individuals, especially if the rates were increased with increasing salary as is now.

The other option would have been to oblige complainies to operate a collective DC scheme , or even at government level, so that individuals were not responsible for the fund management and admin costs applied to every single persons pension individually, and that risks were spread . This model is used in other countries to good success .

Right now the public are generally very badly informed about how pensions work. They’re difficult, making decisions on what product to convert your fund to when crystallising is difficult for anyone, but if you’ve not been good at maths , or don’t have a “savers” mindset, you can faff your what pot you have up the wall- the government doesn’t seem to realise that a free 1 hour sessions is not a replacement for being able to afford a financial advisor for years to ensure a personal pot is saving hard for you.
a lot of people don’t realise you’re pot can decrease. Your pot can vary, and the pension you take, depending on what markets are doing at time you choose to take your pension- someone retiring now will , for the same pot, receive 10% less pension now than 3 years ago for instance. add to that the factors that determine what you get have to be decided on basis of widowed pension or RPI increases, and it’s just way too much to expect of the vast majority of employees . How the hell does the government expect that low wage, basically educated people could ever be expected to make difficult and complex decisions like these.

And then we come onto the even more thorny thread of the gender pension gap. Women receive just 25% of the tax relief on pensions paid out by government year. Men save more, therefore receive more tax advantages…that’s not because they’re better savers (often the reverse), it is an amplified factor that women are subject to gender pay gaps even within an industry, but more importantly across all employment . Here’s a stark fact “Women are paid just £380,000 on average over their lifetimes compared with £643,000 for men, according to official figures that lay bare the scale of Britain's gender pay gap”. It’s not surprising then that women’s pensions are massively lower and saving pots , like the OP, are inadequate.

yes, Op, the figures of pot you need are ridiculously out of reach for you. Especially for you as a women.

the DC personal pension model is a con. We’ve been sold it as the only way to protect our futures. There were other options and models - wealthy people decided they could make more money by not doing that and screw the less well off.

yep, I get very very pissed off about it. 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬I’m sorry for every women in this situation. 🥺💐

ShakiraBahera · 30/08/2023 09:37

I think a lot of people have bought into the 'gold plated public sector pension' government and media spin. Yes for some, there's a lovely pension pot building up but for most, it won't be anywhere near 300k upon retirement.

DryIce · 30/08/2023 09:37

It is intimidating, OP, and I don't think there has been nearly enough financial education available especially for women. The reality is though, £300k is not a lot to fund a retirement - we are predicted to live well into our 80s now so that could be 20+ years. At 5% growth that is £15k/year which isn't huge particularly considering inflation.

It's obviously easier the younger you start, and a lot of that advice is pitched at younger people not an attack on you.

Foe then position you are in though I still think there are options:

You will have a paid off house, could you downsize and free up some ££?

Could you pay into your pension rather than overpay mortgage, getting the tax relief from the gvt and paying off mortgage with the tax free pension drawdown?

I imagine a lot of people will semi retired, is it possible to reduce hours at your work and work a few hours after retirement age? Or is there anything you could look at learning/setting up to provide additional income in retirement?

Rainbow1901 · 30/08/2023 09:37

Ineedwinenow · 30/08/2023 08:09

We lost our pension pot as the fund collapsed so we have no pension anymore!

I currently have 500 quid in a private one and hubby has about the same

Have you looked at this? There should be some back up in place for you somewhere. But even so this is not something you want when planning for your retirement.
https://www.gov.uk/workplace-pensions/protection-for-your-pension

Workplace pensions

Workplace pensions and automatic enrolment - how you're affected, how pensions are protected, what happens if you move job or go on maternity leave and how to opt out

https://www.gov.uk/workplace-pensions/protection-for-your-pension

Boomboom22 · 30/08/2023 09:39

I'm.in the tps so the employer puts in loads like 23 or 24% on top of my bit, but I think as dB the pot doesn't matter so much as the years of service and average salary so I'm not really clear on what I'll get. I hear lgps and tos are great.
My husband is 50, low paid as was pt sahp then fairly low level roles, for about 10 years paying in, if I am reading the statements right he'd get 7500 a year if he stays in his current role to retirement. Which would top up the state pension and with no mortgage should be OK. I'm assuming mine will be at least double that as I've paid in longer and earn way more.

minipie · 30/08/2023 09:40

I think it’s incredibly important to make young people more aware of the necessity to not opt out of paying in. My DD was very blasé about it, figuring she’d rather have the extra £7 or whatever it was a week. Once I pointed out that her employer would be paying in too, she decided to stay in the scheme.

I agree with this. I really hope today’s 20 somethings will get the message that saving a little early on makes a huge difference. Auto enrolment is a big step in the right direction.

I think there is unfortunately a generation that is going to fall between two stools. Too young to have benefitted from guaranteed DB pensions and huge property price increases. Too old to have benefitted from things like auto enrolment and widely available (ie internet) financial advice.

For this middle generation I think there will be a huge divide between those who inherit and those who don’t.

R4ID · 30/08/2023 09:40

Coffeetree · 30/08/2023 08:00

Well yes, I know that. I've read the articles and crunched the numbers too. That doesn't change the fact that it will not be humanly possible for me to save £300k in the next 15 years.

There are other options to consider to top up your pension pot eg equity release, buy a buy to let and live off the rental income, downsize etc

I think the reality for a lot of people will be state pension + part time work - maybe more achievable now with wfh if less mobile? I really feel for those who are renting, how on Earth are they going to pay rent once they’re retired?

thecatsthecats · 30/08/2023 09:42

latetothefisting · 30/08/2023 09:18

I always think this.

Dp and I don't spend anywhere near £50k annually including luxuries, and when I was single (pretty recently) I didn't spend (at that point didn't even EARN pre tax!) the £36.5k it's suggested a single person needs for a comfortable retirement https://www.sjp.co.uk/news/the-cost-of-a-comfortable-retirement and my life felt pretty comfortable. That's over the average wage in lots of places so it doesn't make sense to say you need MORE money in retirement than half the population earns while working (and for lots of people bringing up a family!).

Taking into account that if you own a house you won't still be paying your mortgage which is most peoples biggest outgoing (followed/exceeded by childcare which they are also not going to be paying out by retirement!) by then the figures seem grossly inflated to me.

Plus "retirement" can span such a long time - and what's luxury/basic necessities varies - I'd imagine I'd love to go on some amazing holidays if possible in mid/late sixties but realistically most 90 year olds aren't skiing or cruising - but conversely might need to spend a lot more on care than retired people 20 years younger.

You also need to take into account how you might taper your spending throughout retirement. My GPILs don't get out and up to much nowadays that isn't within walking distance - they're in their early eighties. Same with my aunt. In good health, but no longer up to the big, gallivanting trips of their sixties to mid-70s.

I'd want to prioritise having ready cash for enjoying myself whilst still hearty, followed by quieter years, then potentially mounting health costs.

(As with younger years, you're able to spend less if you can replace money with time though - I was unemployed for six months a couple of years back, and our cost of living dropped in part because I had more time to deal with things cheaply.)

KleineDracheKokosnuss · 30/08/2023 09:43

thecatsthecats · 30/08/2023 08:38

Eh?

I'm on track for a 300k pension from my current pot at the age of 34. I'm not super rich, nor am I a landlord, nor were there any family connections involved at any stage of my career. The biggest role my family have played in my financial life is by explaining finances and by demonstrating extreme frugality.

I'm not extremely frugal, but I do live well within my means, and have made sure my career has progressed up til now. Hence significant chunks of my income going into pensions every month.

Just as much as it is important for people like the OP to have advice fitting to their circumstances, it's also hugely important to contradict the narrative that this sort of thing is impossible, unobtainable. Because so many people believe it and then don't try.

Same here. I went from being the free school meals kid (oh the joy of having your uniform from the special local council ‘shop’) to being on track to have a pension pot worth about 700,000 when I’m 68.

My family didn’t explain finance though - I’m just frugal and became financially literate because I saw the way they burned through money and didn’t want to be the same.

sometimes life throws us a curveball and it doesn’t work out, but to say only the super rich and landlords can achieve a decent pension is just wrong.

WoollyBlackJumper · 30/08/2023 09:43

What does 300k equate to as an annual pension? Do you divide it by 20?

LizzieSiddal · 30/08/2023 09:44

@Coffeetree

Don’t panic!

You will get a state pension and you have a huge asset in your home. You will have options- downsizing would mean you can release some of the cash tied up in your home. Equity release is another option (if you’re desperate).

Also remember, if you can put some more into your pension, it’s better to do it sooner rather than later, so it has more time to grow.

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