To not want to visit parents - how bad was their parenting?

[mrscatwoman]

I am increasingly reflecting on my relationship with my parents, which is limited/strained, and, now they are getting older, the onus is on me to do the visiting but I am finding that I really don't want to. It's a 3 hour drive away. I don't have siblings so no one to talk this stuff through with so anyone's thoughts here would be great to have. Do any of the things listed below justify/explain the fact that I just don't feel very close to them?

1. As a child I was never really centred. I know that it quite typical of 70s/80s upbringings and maybe it has swung too far the other way now, but I was not given swimming lessons or taught to ride a bike, as an example. They just weren't interested so I didn't have those opportunities. Obviously I could have rectified these issues but I never have.
2. Obsession with teeth cleaning and having no fillings as a child, but I had other issues with my teeth that were not addressed or treated as it would have been time-consuming/costly and these have given me lifelong issues/cost. My mother thinks my ds having braces is an amazing commitment on my part!
3. Made to stay with a GP who was openly hostile to me and I was very miserable there but had to go alone for a couple of weeks each summer. Parents didn't take annual leave around school holidays and I was always sent to other relatives at these times up until about 14. Only one was unpleasant but now I find it odd parents didn't want to spend more time with me other than 1 family holiday per year (but not every year). One holiday always included my birthday and I was never with my parents for that.
4. DF suffered with depression and spent most weekends in bed. DM often joined him and I was alone downstairs for hours at weekends for all the years I can remember (obviously I started going out in my teens). The house was dirty and untidy so I rarely had anyone round. It wasn't a pleasant environment.
5. DF developed a drinking problem when I was in my mid-teens and said some pretty unpleasant things regarding me being unplanned and the root of their financial problems - I don't know the extent of these and none were obvious to me. Both worked f/t in fairly good jobs, especially df, throughout my childhood and they had a mortgage. After I left home they inherited a lot and have been very comfortable since then.
6. I dropped out of uni after one year when I first went at 18 and then went back in my mid-20s. I had no financial support, which was ok I suppose as I had left home at 21, but I had to lie on the form to say I was estranged from my parents to qualify for the maximum loan/grant as it was expected they would contribute but they wouldn't.

Since uni, which is now around 20 years ago, I have never lived near them and have seen them a few times a year when they visit. We never discuss anything personal and I suppose the relationship is polite but superficial. I do get on better with my dm and speak to her most weeks, but I feel like she enables df. He has had numerous health issues and I'm sure they are alcohol related but she covers this up. When I see them he never drinks but I'm sure that it's on hold temporarily for my visits. One thing I absolutely dread is him outliving her as I have no idea how I would maintain a relationship with him and feel he would slide into chaos pretty quickly and I would be responsible. But I really don't want to be. They are mid/late 70s so this increasingly worries me. I know it sounds cold but I can't believe he is still alive with his lifestyle.

When my marriage broke up dm came to stay and was supportive but this did come just after their sizeable inheritance and I feel like they could have offered some financial support too, though I didn't ask, but it was tough for a few years. My dm kept going on about how my house has 3 toilets and I feel like she likes to minimise any problems I may have. I just have never felt supported by them. And I know inheritance is not something you can rely on, but my dm has told me they have left everything to me but I'm not an executor of their will, which I find odd. I know no one is entitled to anything, but I would honestly rather know now than have another kick in the teeth when they are gone.

This is so long no one will probably read it and I can't remember my original question now but it has been good to write it all down. Do these issues seem silly - am I being unfair to be dwelling on them?

No. I think it sounds like you lived and still live as far as family are concerned a very lonely existence. I hope you have good friends around you and it sounds like you are doing what you can to make sure your own DC has the same.

I understand why you feel a disconnect with them.

Its an unpleasant feeling when you start to attain good mental health and a good position in life and realise some of how you were treated and how you felt was down to bad choices.

Your parents did their best. Maybe it wasn't good enough but I do believe that of most people. I'm sure you deserved better.

They sound like lazy parents who weren’t very maternal or paternal. I wouldn’t go as far as to say neglectful. Still bad enough for you to have a pretty lonely and joyless childhood though. I am sorry.

Ultimately, you have to do what's best for you and if that means limiting contact, that's what you should do.

I can relate to a lot of your post and I imagine lots of other posters will too. You're not alone in this.

Thank you. It's good to know it doesn't seem ridiculous. I honestly think lazy is the word that sums them up, and selfish in the case of my dad. Who knows what my dc will say about me in 30 years though...

I think you would benefit from counselling, to talk all this through. There's obviously a lot in your mind that needs working through and it's much easier to do so with someone trained in listening and helping you analyse. I likened my counselling to throwing a hard-packed pile of feathers into the air and letting them settle.
All the best for your future.

Personally think you’re being quite harsh towards them. It’s one thing actually experiencing trauma but another to be critiquing every aspect of their parenting from todays styles of parenting and all the conveniences, help and knowledge todays parents have at their fingertips. I say that from having been an 80s child myself and having been a parent myself for nearly 30 years. You have a couple of good points with regards to your braces (if they actually had the knowledge and money to resolve the issue?) Also did they know you were so miserable at your grandparents? Were they actually in a position to take that time off in the holidays? Would they have felt with their circumstances they had the time and energy to offer you more than your grandparents. Were their not any positives to your childhood, did they not even do the basics??

I'm a 70s child and was nodding along until about point 4. My parents didn't centre me or my brother at all, there were no activities for us, no time taken off work for holidays.

Where we part ways is your DPs being in bed all weekend, the house being dirty, and your DF drinking. I think you were emotionally neglected, and am not surprised at all that you are not close to them and don't like to visit.

Yes, I do wonder if I'm being harsh, hence the post. I think dental care is essential. I don't know the details of their finances or what would have been on the NHS (I haven't paid for ds' braces) but I think it's poor to just do nothing when a dentist flags up an issue. They definitely knew how I felt about the GP, who would phone my df and complain about me when I was in the room. My df had a troubled relationship with her and she was not allowed to visit when he had a breakdown, so I can't understand, now I'm a parent, why they sent me there. They took time off to do their own thing when I was elsewhere.

But, yes, there were good points too. I was encouraged to do well at school and they could be fun. It's just everything had to be on their terms. But I know no one is the perfect parent, including me, so...

Me too. Your childhood sounds much like mine - except the drinking etc. i’ve long since forgiven my parents as it was a different time. Their childhoods were harder still and they had no model really.

But I have had counselling and it’s really helped. I’d suggest you do too.

I’d also suggest some counselling.

There are definitely parts of your post where your parents sound neglectful and your home life sounds chaotic. It also sounds as if they were struggling themselves with mental
health and that their neglect was part of this, but that doesn’t make it any more bearable for you. There are also parts where I don’t think they sound neglectful or wrong (eg the stuff about who is executor of their will, your mum not giving you any money when you got divorced etc). Some counselling with someone qualified might help you deal with what you experienced as a child, perhaps with less of a focus on apportioning blame and more on you and your well-being. It might also help you make decisions about what sort of relationship you want with them from now on.

It's very difficult to accurately judge our parents actions using our own memories because we didn't have access to all the information. We don't know what their daily work life was like because we weren't part of that world. We don't know what traumas and set backs they were dealing with unless they chose to share that with us.
Given that your father has a history of depression and alcoholism I would guess he was fighting his own battles and going through some very stressful things. While it wasn't the best childhood and it sounds like they could have done better, perhaps they did all they could manage at the time. We are all only human and life is very hard sometimes.

Your instincts are correct and I would not feel bad about minimal contact on your part but you could keep up phone calls and so on and just keep visits infrequent.
Yes 70/80's parenting was less child centric but I was taught to swim by my parents and all the other stuff it didnt need expensive lessons.
I also spent a lot of holidays with my DM while she worked at a local pub (lunchtimes) or at GP's but they were loving.
It almost sounds like you were more of a fed and clothed lodger than a daughter.
I can never understand those that come into a chunk of money and are able but don't help their family with a little bit either.
My parents had a small inheritance but gave my DB and I 5k each.
If you were my friend or sister I would say no it's nor your fault you aren't closer and it's not on you.
Your DF in particular sounds like a horrible man. If he was an uncle say you wouldn't flinch in never seeing him again I imagine.

The dentist should have referred you and if they took you to the dentist and so much effort into keep your teeth clean I’m not sure why they would not have taken you to any relevant appointments. It’s hard to understand why they didn’t listen to you more about your grandparents or did they listen but were not able to do anything immediately. For example my DC may say they are not enjoying x childcare but then it still takes time to sort an alternative out. I know ideally you would it liked that time with them but perhaps they just didn’t have the energy after everything else in their lives and just wanted to keep themselves sane so they could at least provide the basics. I think everything being on their terms was very much the 70s/80s style of parenting, a certain amount of it was also about not spoiling/pandering children. No doubt at all they would probably be very different parents in todays world and so much easier to be as well as a wealth of knowledge available to parents and not the same pressures (I still have young children so know how different parenting was even in the 1990s)

I would say you’re justified to feel a bit sad your childhood wasn’t what you had hoped but overall your parents don’t sound like they were that bad and actually did quite well considering the issues they were having to deal with. As for them funding you at uni, we haven’t funded our DC (hope they don’t thing we’re awful parents for it) and as for the inheritance, that such sounds a bit grabby and greedy tbh. My parents both inherited and haven’t passed any of that on to me, so what. I like to remember the times they took me camping, out for walks and just the unrelenting years of cooking me dinner, washing my clothes etc etc

Your first 2 points were normal 1970s /early 80s upbringing.
3rd point also normal with exception of your parents not spending your birthdays with you- thats very unkind and unusual.
Your dad clearly has had MH issues and your mum priorotised him.
I think its ok to keep a level of contact you are comfortable with- it doesnt sound like they pulled put all the stops for you although your mum sounds like she offered emotional support during your divorce-having 3 toilets is something my mum wouldnt shut up about either!! for their generation it would have been unheard of.

Did you miss this bit?

1. DF suffered with depression and spent most weekends in bed. DM often joined him and I was alone downstairs for hours at weekends for all the years I can remember (obviously I started going out in my teens). The house was dirty and untidy so I rarely had anyone round. It wasn't a pleasant environment.

This has never been good enough parenting, clean teeth or not. Clearly the parents didn't do the basics of they were in bed, and drinking.

Yes, it was lonely. My dc are teens now but I remember it hitting me when they were primary age how awful it was that my parents were in bed all the time! It was lonely. I also remember when my dad told me I wasn't planned that it kind of made sense, though in many ways I guess they did make the best of it they could and I do think they love me, my mum anyway. I think my dad is damaged and it's hard to tell with him. My mum putting him first is spot on, and I don't think that's right really.

@mrscatwoman points 3, 4 and 5 are awful.

I agree counselling could help and if you feel like it you could read about Childhood Emotional Neglect and Uninvolved Parenting. Uninvolved Parenting ranges from being simply being unresponsive to neglect. You might be able to work out if your childhood fits those descriptions.

Take care, thinking about these things can be hard.

Never spending birthdays with you because they were on holiday.

Making you spend time with a hostile relative.

These two are emotionally abusive to me. Some of the rest are probably more common but still not what most people experienced.

I'd struggle to spend time with them if I was you.

It sounds like it would have been very difficult for your mum and she wasn’t always perfect under these difficult circumstances but she tried her best in her own way. It probably wasn’t so unusual to put your marriage first in those days. Just coming from a ‘broken’ family was considered to be very damaging to children. Other aspects of parenting we consider really important today parents just didn’t have the knowledge of why and how these things were so important. She parented in society that still thought caning in schools and lots of other things that would shock young parents today was quite acceptable! I have sympathy with you that your childhood was lonely and unhappy at times but think it was more unfortunate than intentional on your parents part and don’t think it will do you any good feeling bitter towards them for it

I think (as someone with a neglectful parent, so no judgement and just complete sympathies), it’s good to be compassionate and understand why they did it. You can still choose to not spend time with them, but it may help to see this as a them problem and not a you problem and I think this can reduce anger.
It really sounds like they were overwhelmed, skint, and unable to cope, doing the best they could, in that time with the information available to them and realistic parenting styles of the time. but that just wasn’t good enough and it was a bit selfish.
For example making you spend time with a hostile relative. Did they have a choice? If they stopped working could they still pay the bills? Was there anyone else that could watch you? And the uni thing, lots of people don’t have support, did they even have the funds to support you? I don’t think you can blame them for that really.

Now however, Just as they did what’s right for them at the time, if the best you can do now for your own mental health is to visit or call very rarely then that’s fair enough. If you don’t have a close relationship with them because they never put in work then that’s also fair enough. If however you are just not seeing them out of spite I think that’s different and you should try to work through your anger, just for your own benefit.

Completely agree

I also relate. Part of it is 70s upbringing but i never felt particularly loved or cherished and still don’t. I was expected to get on with it all and not expect much of them .

Our family life revolved around my DFs wants and wishes (he also drank) my DM facilitated it knowing it wasn’t the family life we should have had . And the opposite of her wonderful childhood.

We lived on a knife edge as things could blow up for any reason and it would be our fault. I wasn’t planned either and I don’t think my parents would be together if it hadn’t been for me. I carry that burden too. Today it would be classed as emotional abuse. My brother had counselling to process it as an adult. OP sounds like you dealt with so much but many of us understand.

My parents are local so I visit, I do what’s expected but if I was honest I wish I didn’t have to go. It’s a very formal relationship.

OP you are not wrong to feel as you do. My solution was to make sure my own children will never feel as I did. Not ever.

Major emotional neglect. Your childhood sounds like mine. Both of mine were drinkers. My teeth issues were ignored, I had a massive overbite but mum didn’t have time to take me to the dentist, despite being a teacher so 3 months off a year. I spent £2K getting braces as an adult. I was never taken anywhere until my aunt got together with her now husband and dragged us all on holidays in the UK, we never went abroad. I was never taken anywhere by my parents during the summer holiday.

It was my aunt that found out I’d broken my arm when I was left home alone and had gone out on my bike and fallen off. I recently went for a visit and my aunt and her family took me somewhere and couldn’t understand how I’d never been before. My cousin tackled my mum, who said I could have gone by myself, but there was no internet when I was a child, how could I know about it and it would have taken ages on public transport. My cousin was in disbelief!

Are your parents actually pressuring you to visit them? It sounds like they were flawed people, parenting as well as their own limitations allowed (poor mental health, money worries etc), within the social context of the 70s/80s when a lot of what you've described was actually quite normal, though obviously not great.

Really, I think once you have passed more of your life as an adult than as a child (i.e. you're past your mid-thirties), it's time to try and let go of this kind of resentment and focus on healing and forgiveness, especially as your mum has tried to support you as an adult and you have an opportunity to do things differently for your own children. You'll feel better for it in the long run, and once your parents are no longer around, you'll want to feel that the difficulties between you weren't left unresolved. Have you had any therapy?