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Original poster

At a loss with DD

38 replies

CozyCamper · 21/08/2023 15:26

I actually hate writing this out but I'm completely at a loss. I'm not sure what to do to be honest. She is just not a nice person to be around right now, she is 12. I know hormones are at play and that some of it is normal pre-teen behaviour but some of it I'm not so sure about.

She lies ALL the time. Big lies, small lies, lies for a purpose i.e to try and get out of trouble, lies for no reason at all. I can understand some of the lies such as, saying she didn't do something when she has because she is trying to avoid getting into trouble. I can see the logic in this even whilst I might prefer to truth but honestly, some of it just makes no sense. It comes out so quickly I'm not even sure she knows what she's going to say until it's out her mouth. Even when I can say "I know you're lying because of (insert solid proof it's a lie) she will often continue to stand by her lie.

She helps herself to things that don't belong to her all the time. Her sisters things, my things, money, treat food (which I've since had to move because it was getting out of control).

If she isn't the centre of attention she will quite often do anything to change that. Doesn't really matter if the attention is positive or negative as long as the focus is on her. Absolutely zero understanding that when for example if I'm unwell that she might need to change her expectations of how that day looks. Would ask for friends round and the answer would be no because I'm unwell and she will storm around, slam doors, scream, shout, stomp etc. This goes for basically anytime she either gets caught out telling lies and/or doesn't get her own way.

She has a younger sister and if I've made plans for a day she will always be asked to join but often opts to spend it with her friends (not a problem I get it) but later, usually if her plans haven't quite worked out the way they were meant to she will kick off and I mean kick off because she wasn't there. The fact she's been asked completely escapes her. If I said that she had to come she would come and sulk, be moody, niggle away at her sister and no doubt kick off before and after and quite honestly what is meant to be a nice afternoon just becomes a disaster.

She speaks to me, DH and her younger sister like dirt at times.

I love her very much but I don't like being around her when she's behaving this way and it's been 6+ months of it. I don't have massively high expectations of her, room tidy, helps to set table, empty dishwasher etc and unless we are there directly telling her what to do it won't get done. The bedroom is a tip. I spent 3 hours cleaning it a few weekends ago and despite daily reminders to bring down washing, tidy up before bed etc it is back to being a tip.

I'm honestly feeling like I just don't like this version that seems to have pitched up in my house and I don't even know where to start to try and fix it.

OP posts:
DustyLee123 · 21/08/2023 15:38

So she will be at night school now, so what do they say ? Does she lie tnere too ?

Foxesandsquirrels · 21/08/2023 15:42

Have you asked for a CAMHS referral? Spoken to your GP? Might be normal hormones but ADHD and ASD in girls very often only shows its ugly side at the start of puberty.

Original poster
CozyCamper · 21/08/2023 15:52

Night school? She doesn't attend night school...

OP posts:

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Original poster
CozyCamper · 21/08/2023 15:55

I haven't asked for any referral or spoken to a GP, I hadn't really considered it to be possibly medical. I made contact with a therapist recently who I spoke with and felt a little better but then never responded regarding a follow up appointment that should have included DD. I was looking up other people today after a truly horrendous weekend.

So you think I should speak to her GP?

OP posts:
Foxesandsquirrels · 21/08/2023 16:12

Definitely. This was pretty much my DD from 1 year post start of period. Didn't change until we got her on ADHD meds. The lying was the one that would get me the most. Turns out she just felt like a failure at everything, 0 confidence and so much anger that everyone else seems to manage, she would just rage and lie.
I have a friend who's DD exhibited similar symptoms and ended up being diagnosed ASD by age 14. However, there is so much overlap in both diagnosis so just do lots of research.

Original poster
CozyCamper · 21/08/2023 16:23

Thank you foxes, I'll do some research tonight. I'm glad you got things sorted with your DD, it does give me some hope.

I've been so upset today, I honestly can't stand it. Her and DH were sparking off each other all weekend and I was so close to just walking out the house because its unbearable. She called her Dad a liar and I shouted at her which I really try to not do as I know it doesn't help but I was so angry that she would stand their calling anyone a liar knowing ALL the lies she tells. Also he wasn't the one lying it was her.

I'm just exhausted. Appreciate your reply.

OP posts:
Velvetbee · 21/08/2023 16:23

I had one of these. She’s 23 now and utterly lovely but has acquired an ASD diagnosis along the way. She didn’t like how puberty felt, was traumatised by a sexual assault and felt alienated by normal life. We didn’t realise any of this until she was 19.

Odingodof · 21/08/2023 16:28

Op when you say "helped herself to other people things what do you mean?

My dd is also a little similar in attention, jealousy etc but doesn't lie and is very truthful.

Odingodof · 21/08/2023 16:30

@CozyCamper shes probably projecting with the liar thing.

I think with all these behaviours it's really hard not too but so important not to make it what she is.it's probably too late now but instead of calling her a liar it's better to say..

Oh why did you just lie, you've always been so honest and truthful?

Try and work positive in.

Give them a ladder to climb up

43ontherocksporfavor · 21/08/2023 16:42

Have school ever commented? If she does have ADHD I would have thought her habits would’ve been noticed in the classroom by now. My understanding is that there is difficulty with impulse control in every setting with ADHD.

DustyLee123 · 21/08/2023 17:04

DustyLee123 · 21/08/2023 15:38

So she will be at night school now, so what do they say ? Does she lie tnere too ?

It must have been added in, I didn’t write night !

Foxesandsquirrels · 21/08/2023 17:28

43ontherocksporfavor · 21/08/2023 16:42

Have school ever commented? If she does have ADHD I would have thought her habits would’ve been noticed in the classroom by now. My understanding is that there is difficulty with impulse control in every setting with ADHD.

You're vastly overestimating the relationship kids have with their teachers now. Plus, girls mask so well, not just autistic ones. When we sent the questionnaire to DDs school as part of her ADHD assessment, the teachers came back asking if they have the right child.

43ontherocksporfavor · 21/08/2023 17:32

Yes I get that. At primary though the relationship is a lot closer. Wondering if op ever noticed any traits when her Dd was younger.

Friggingfrog · 21/08/2023 17:34

It’s not always neuro divergence although people often suggest adhd and asd for all behaviours on mumsnet. Hormones can play a huge part and cause enormous mood swings for young girls. What consequences do you have in action op? How is she at school? Has anything happened in school that could be contributing at all.

mrsld1985 · 21/08/2023 17:53

My daughter is 12 and exactly the same, I suspect adhd/and and she's on the waiting list for cahms.

She is like this at home mostly where she is comfortable, she masks it at school etc...

Original poster
CozyCamper · 23/08/2023 09:24

Hello all,

Apologies for the silence, I came down with a sickness bug and been out of the game for the last 36 hours or so. Thank you so much for your replies.

She is at school yes, she seems to get on ok there. She has friends but she seems to fall out with people frequently and then they make up, again normal for age or not I don't know. It does seem to quite often be her they all fall out with and I do think she excludes certain information that gets relayed to us. I've checked her phone and she certainly has been called out for lying by her peers. She struggles academically, undergone additional support tests and sits on the border but her transition to HS has included notes for her to be re-tested. Excels at sport, is confident, engaged so generally feel like she does ok.

By helping herself to things I generally means takes what she wants even if it isn't hers. Find things stashed in her room, again some I can understand i.e nail polish etc. Wants to try it out, but other things she doesn't need such as contact lens solution. No sense in it and I have no idea why she would take it. Takes chargers, again there is a reason, but then takes her sisters toys that are then put in a drawer so not using it so why take it? Punishment for us or impulse?

In terms of consequence we take her phone away to be earned back, maybe don't allow her to go out that afternoon or whatever the natural consequence is. Example, she doesn't tidy her room she can't go out until that is complete. I try to vary it depending on severity. So not to remove things indefinitely and give her a goal to work towards but she has outright said before that punishments don't really matter because she knows she'll get it back at some point.

I've never considered ADHD or ASD however, that isn't to say it couldn't be that. Whatever it is it sits behind a closed door for the outside world for the most part. She slips occassionally, my Mum catches glimpes but at home, maybe in her comfort zone that door is flung wide open and don't we know about it.

We've had a couple of good days after a horrible weekend but it isn't usually long lasting. I honestly would liken some of her behaviour to that of a toddler temper tantrum.

She doesn't seem to have empathy, I'm not sure how to describe it. But an example would be when a relative died. He was dying at home and the process was long and horrific. The kids got to see him just before things really took a nose dive and she was more annoyed that I wouldn't take them with me and had no understanding that it a. wasn't how he would want them remembering him, b. not right for his wife to have them there, c. wasn't something children should see. They weren't close so not that but almost like she felt like she had some kind of entitlement to be involved. When he passed away, again it was like an annoyance that she hadn't been allowed to be there rather than any real upset at his passing.

I can't really explain the behaviour all that well because I can't wrap my head around it.

OP posts:
Original poster
CozyCamper · 23/08/2023 09:26

Oh why did you just lie, you've always been so honest and truthful?

I can't say this because it isn't true so it's really difficult to navigate. I do try my best to work with the positive but slowly the positives are becoming short lived. I feel like such an awful parent because I love her but I don't like these traits and as she shows them more and more I'm struggling to grasp onto the positive.

OP posts:
Original poster
CozyCamper · 23/08/2023 09:26

Sorry that was long winded but I really do appreciate the posts and I'll check out the links

OP posts:
justabigdisco · 23/08/2023 09:28

Following as my 11 year old is the same. The constant lies are just wearing us down and I can’t wrap my head around it. Can’t say I’d considered ADHD / ASD, she doesn’t show traits to my understanding.

Original poster
CozyCamper · 23/08/2023 09:57

Should add, the things she takes aren't things she's asked for a not allowed (nail polish). It's maybe the colour or something new. Whatever it is it's solely down to her seeing it, wanting it, taking it. Same with money on occasion.

OP posts:
Original poster
CozyCamper · 23/08/2023 21:48

I went our tonight for 2 hours and apparently she kicked off majorly just after I left 😔

Sorry you're having similar issues justabigdisco is it just lying or more to it?

OP posts:
EineReiseDurchDieZeit · 23/08/2023 21:56

I had a colleague who we suspected had undiagnosed autism, she baffled me because she constantly made up detailed fictions. Yet was adamant about provable lies. It was only when I met a mum of an autistic DS who couldn't tell the difference between imagination and fact that it clicked with me. Definitely get her looked at.

thinkfast · 24/08/2023 11:02

The dying relative thing is tricky OP. I remember when my grandad was very ill/dying we weren't allowed to see him and weren't allowed at his funeral as my grandma didn't want it. I was about 11 and felt incredibly upset about it. It's an age where you start to have worries about death and mortality and whilst I understood my grandma's feelings, I felt my grief and worries were never considered at the time. I felt for several years that I wasn't allowed to say goodbye to him.

Perhaps a conversation about worries and grief might help her to open up about what's troubling her?

Godlovesall26 · 24/08/2023 11:43

OP can you afford private therapy ? 12 is a good age to be able to turn things around, that’s the positive ; the negative is much more ‘severe’ (risk of harm to themselves for instance) will already be on NHS waiting lists and they can have to wait ages, your DD it does not sound like would be a priority at all to be honest.
If not regular therapy, can you afford a private assessment for ASD/ADHD (heads up, it will be horrendously expensive, the one I know would be around £2000 (but very good reputation, although full disclosure I’m 33 it’s only what I have heard around me, as in if you’re paying a fortune pay for a reputable one at least), but it depends on your finances, if you can afford to put it on a credit card I know many parents that did, versus the risk of years of waiting - obviously easy to say as not my finances though)