At a loss with DD

[CozyCamper]

I actually hate writing this out but I'm completely at a loss. I'm not sure what to do to be honest. She is just not a nice person to be around right now, she is 12. I know hormones are at play and that some of it is normal pre-teen behaviour but some of it I'm not so sure about.

She lies ALL the time. Big lies, small lies, lies for a purpose i.e to try and get out of trouble, lies for no reason at all. I can understand some of the lies such as, saying she didn't do something when she has because she is trying to avoid getting into trouble. I can see the logic in this even whilst I might prefer to truth but honestly, some of it just makes no sense. It comes out so quickly I'm not even sure she knows what she's going to say until it's out her mouth. Even when I can say "I know you're lying because of (insert solid proof it's a lie) she will often continue to stand by her lie.

She helps herself to things that don't belong to her all the time. Her sisters things, my things, money, treat food (which I've since had to move because it was getting out of control).

If she isn't the centre of attention she will quite often do anything to change that. Doesn't really matter if the attention is positive or negative as long as the focus is on her. Absolutely zero understanding that when for example if I'm unwell that she might need to change her expectations of how that day looks. Would ask for friends round and the answer would be no because I'm unwell and she will storm around, slam doors, scream, shout, stomp etc. This goes for basically anytime she either gets caught out telling lies and/or doesn't get her own way.

She has a younger sister and if I've made plans for a day she will always be asked to join but often opts to spend it with her friends (not a problem I get it) but later, usually if her plans haven't quite worked out the way they were meant to she will kick off and I mean kick off because she wasn't there. The fact she's been asked completely escapes her. If I said that she had to come she would come and sulk, be moody, niggle away at her sister and no doubt kick off before and after and quite honestly what is meant to be a nice afternoon just becomes a disaster.

She speaks to me, DH and her younger sister like dirt at times.

I love her very much but I don't like being around her when she's behaving this way and it's been 6+ months of it. I don't have massively high expectations of her, room tidy, helps to set table, empty dishwasher etc and unless we are there directly telling her what to do it won't get done. The bedroom is a tip. I spent 3 hours cleaning it a few weekends ago and despite daily reminders to bring down washing, tidy up before bed etc it is back to being a tip.

I'm honestly feeling like I just don't like this version that seems to have pitched up in my house and I don't even know where to start to try and fix it.

I agree with you, I don’t think the situation warrants saying she has no empathy.

It’s worrying a little if her friends are calling her out for lying, not the end of the world obviously, but could escalate (I work with children in care, which is different obviously, but they’re the same as their age group most of them for these things, réputations once established… well, growing teens can be very cruel. Hence me mentioning 12 is still good, I mean have you ever really heard older teens fighting about what happened when they were 12, unless very significant ? It would by a lot be seen as babyish (thankfully, they already grow up way too soon in my eyes, the only advantage of this I find is this sort of grace period ; hit 14 and it becomes harder, and she won’t change in a day)

You also mention academic difficulties : this could be hard for her self esteem, especially if her sister is stronger, friends also.

Finally, you mention being good at sports, again how does she compare to sister? Does she have her own different activities ? Is there any extra you can encourage regarding this, to bolster her confidence (again though, depending on the activities it may depend on finances) ?
Basically trying to value her individuality +++ so she doesn’t feel the need to lie about herself (she’s a bit - a lot some would say - too young I think for personality disorder considerations)

A couple of thoughts from reading your post (though no solutions unfortunately). I found saying ‘Just because you say it, doesn’t make it true’. was surprisingly effective when I had just been lied at. I think that sometimes they really truly believe they can fool you - hence the just bringing on more lies to support the first one.
Some of the other behaviour seems like a child that is looking for rejection. The asking for things they can’t have when they’ve already been told they can’t have them. The advice I was given by a child therapist in that situation was to try saying yes if at all possible. It did work but it was a much younger child with some serious anxiety issues.
I hope that is of some help.

That's just one example. There are more, and I probably wrote no empathy when I mean little. Understand its complex though also and those are my private thoughts, I haven't really voiced them other than here.

Again surrounding death, her pet died and there was nothing at all. No upset, nothing. Other examples are not understanding when people are sick her wants may need to take a back seat, no understanding how her behaviour impacts others feelings, can respond to sensitive things in a very strange non emotive way. The only real emotion I see from her is when she feels something is unfair to her. I may not be explaining all that well though. Little empathy or age related selfishness I just don't know.

We can afford therapy and possibly assessment but I'd probably want to speak to a therapist in the first instance to see what their thoughts are as I do wonder if my view point is skewed being so close to it.

With sports we invested a huge amount of time and money into one in particular but she's unfortunately recently lost all interest and ultimately decided she wants to leave.

She has expressed interest in other sports which we are encouraging. Her sister is a good bit younger but we can see she finds school easier than older DD did so. In terms of friendships they are very different DD1 has always had a big group of friend DD2 2 really close friends and then those on the perimeter that she would play with but isn't really bothered if they choose not to play type of thing. Sports DD1 as I said is genuinely naturally good and anything she turns her hand to, DD2 is the total opposite and seems quite happy to avoid sports.

Just because you say it, doesn’t make it true

This actually sounds like a good way to let her know without it being too inflammatory. I try and keep all conversations calm because if you meet fire with fire with her it would blow up. If you keep calm she escalates still but it de-escalates quicker.

Sorry for typos out walking on my lunch break

I can totally understand her over dying relative it's something that would be very hard for children to grasp any idea of.

Unfortunately one stragety to climb out of this negative rut is to try and keep making things positive.

Where can she go in this round of issues

You are both on a wheel at the moment. She's behaving naughty and your tired out with it and responding.

You need to break this wheel.

Go away, take her 1:1 over night youth hostel... Or ignore all the bad and stop responding to it.

If she lies ignore it or say I know that's not true in a nice way and carry on. Just ignore it

Give her some small task to do and praise her to the high heavens...

Anythings to break this action / reaction you have going.

Thanks for your message. We have tried so many different methods. It's maybe important to point out that this has been over 6 months at it's worst. It's been a lot longer leading up to this.

I have tried completely ignoring it, it got worse. I've tried nipping it in the bud very quickly and the disengaging, it got worse. I've tried punishments, incentives etc etc. Nothing made it better. I've read books, blogs and countless threads on here. I hit my breaking point and contacted the professional I spoke about up thread but it fell through and I've sent a couple of emails this morning.

We've been away one on one, we've activity days out, teams building time things but honestly no matter how good I feel it's gone in the moment it is almost immediately followed by wanting something more and if I say no for an example spent all day doing something of interest to her and we stop to pick up something for dinner she asks to go to McDonald's and the answer was no because I was picking up tea for everyone and had to be back by a certain time and she kicked off.

It really does feel that no matter what is done it's not enough. It crossed a line into actually just rewarding bad behaviour and no, I'm not prepared to continue down that road. She has been offered countless other opportunities for one on one time in a more simple way and if I suggest she joins me doing x it's always met with I would like to go do y and y is always an extravagant treat. If she doesn't get it she will sulk or kick off.

Lying and stealing (eg chocolates we had bought for her dad for Father’s Day). Also she still has issues around soiling and there is a lot of dishonesty around that - hiding and lying about it, pretending she has been to the toilet when she hasn’t

Stop tidying her room, stop doing her washing for a start. See what she does - will she ask for clean clothes ? Wash her own? Or wear dirty ones? Be interesting to see.

also you don’t need to catch her out on every lie. Just the ones you feel are important.

create a day for just the two of you, but make it clear that she cannot then change her plans to hang with her friends. And that you will be spending time separately with her sister also. If she kicks off if things don’t go her way have you tried just ignoring her? She may be doing it cz she knows it creates a rise out of you all.

something I say to my daughter if you’re shouting, I’m not listening, come back when you’re calmer and we will have a family meeting and discuss properly. It works

Hi,

Been a while since I've been on this thread. I really don't try to catch every lie, picking your battles and all that.

In some ways we've seen improvement and then the slips a big one's. I.e had a good month or so and then found out she'd been stealing to an amount of £100 over a period of time just before Christmas. It was money DH had stashed away and I wasn't even aware of it in the house. We tried to stop keeping money in the house but do need some for adhoc things and we then caught her last weekend trying to tip money out of a fully sealed piggy bank.

I don't engage with shouting at all now, she will not address the issue later just stay upstairs until dinner, next morning etc and act like nothing happened.

How are things now OP?
I found this thread as I am in the exact same position as you with my 12 year old dd, and struggling to cope with it all. Hope you’re ok.