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Original poster

Boys only spaces - understanding the resentment

74 replies

Summerhasfinallyarrived · 09/08/2023 09:00

I’m hoping for the thoughts of others on this.

My son is six and belongs to a boys only group. It has been brilliant for him and (without wanting to be dramatic) has had a hugely positive impact on his life. I’m a single parent and he has very limited male role models. He doesn’t really fit in with the other boys at school but this group has welcomed him and the older boys really look out for the younger ones, he really is flourishing. There are many other similar groups for both boys and girls to attend locally but I have been astonished by the resentment expressed by other mums.

For context, he found it very difficult in reception when his friends went to rainbows and he couldn’t, I explained why and told him he could go to Beavers in Year one. Unfortunately by the time he was old enough all the spaces were gone (he is young in the year). Most of his friends went who also attended rainbows so it felt like he was doubly excluded. I was so pleased to find this one thing for him where he can really be himself and can’t for the life of me understand the comments/resentment. The group is doing really well and there are calls for it to be opened up to girls or a similar group set up for girls only. So far the organisers have resisted but I think it will only be a matter of time.

Finally do others know of similar groups I could look for for him in case this one does change?

OP posts:
milski · 16/08/2023 08:28

Phos · 09/08/2023 15:42

But let’s wilfully ignore the fact that boys have been denied their own space for years since girls were allowed to join Scouts and STILL get Guides to themselves. Because that’s just inconvenient and doesn’t fit the narrative does it.

Show quote history

This ^^

Oopsididitagain12 · 16/08/2023 08:32

Phos · 09/08/2023 15:42

But let’s wilfully ignore the fact that boys have been denied their own space for years since girls were allowed to join Scouts and STILL get Guides to themselves. Because that’s just inconvenient and doesn’t fit the narrative does it.

Show quote history

Scouts chose to let girls in because a the time, there were not enough boys joining to keep the various troops going. That wasn't the case for all troops, and the one near us sayed boys only for a long time. Eventually the decision was made to let girls join all troops but the initial decision was a financial one by Scouts itself.

Guides didn't have trouble with recruitment so didnt need to make the same decision.

CurlewKate · 16/08/2023 08:45

@Quirrelsotherface "It's ok for boys to have their own groups!"

Yep. Absolutely. Course it is. Did anyone say it wasn't?

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

6 year olds Primary education
PuttingDownRoots · 16/08/2023 08:47

Women have been Scout leaders since the beginning
Girls could join Venture Scouts in 1976.
Girls could join all sections in 1991.

Its been 32 years. Its a bit late to moan about it now...

Whereas Guides has been girls and women only fir over a hundred years since the beginning (current controversy aside)

The OPs locality is supporting a boys only group. If its a call for it other places can start one...

Budgiegirlbob · 16/08/2023 08:52

But let’s wilfully ignore the fact that boys have been denied their own space for years since girls were allowed to join Scouts and STILL get Guides to themselves. Because that’s just inconvenient and doesn’t fit the narrative does it

There are boys only clubs such as Boys Brigade, sports clubs etc. Why does it have to be the job of the Scout Association to provide a boys only club?

Anyone can set up a boys club if they choose to. But I’m guessing that this doesn’t happen due to either lack of demand or lack of volunteers (ie not enough parents want it badly enough to set this up).

Quirrelsotherface · 16/08/2023 09:07

Yep. Absolutely. Course it is. Did anyone say it wasn't?

Yes, whoever it was who decided that girls could join Beavers and Cubs.

CurlewKate · 16/08/2023 09:10

@Quirrelsotherface "Yes, whoever it was who decided that girls could join Beavers and Cubs."

It was decided because otherwise there would have been no Beavers and Cubs. Or Scouts. Or Explorers.

Holly60 · 16/08/2023 09:27

Deathraystare · 09/08/2023 11:27

@LakeTiticaca

People want single female spaces so why not male?

Perhaps it is the fact that female spaces are disappearing? Changing rooms. toilets, sports etc etc. That may be why they are annoyed that boys have their own space?

If you are referring to the trans issue, then presumably male spaces are disappearing too as transmen are able to use them

budgiegirl · 16/08/2023 09:41

Quirrelsotherface · 16/08/2023 09:07

Yep. Absolutely. Course it is. Did anyone say it wasn't?

Yes, whoever it was who decided that girls could join Beavers and Cubs.

The Scout Association weren't saying that it's not ok for boys to have their own groups. Just that the Scout Association were no longer going to provide this. They weren't actively against boy-only groups, but the demand was no longer there, and they needed to admit girls to survive. That said, scouting is now massively popular with boys and girls, with most groups having waiting lists, so it works for them.

I genuinely don't understand why parents who are so adamant that there is a lack of boy-only groups don't set up their own.

caringcarer · 16/08/2023 10:08

Boys Brigade and some sports clubs tend to be males only. After a certain age many sports split into male and female such as cricket, football.

caringcarer · 16/08/2023 10:11

My son's both went through Beavers, Cubs and Scouts and where we live there was a waiting list for all of them, even Scouts. Hardly any of the boys dropped out at Scouts but more did drop out at Rangers level.

Deathbyfluffy · 16/08/2023 10:12

titchy · 16/08/2023 08:08

I don't understand the double standard in that boys aren't allowed to join Rainbows or Brownies and yet girls are allowed to join Beavers and Cubs.

Do you understand the concept of two completely separate organisations having different rules? They're not the same as each other - you may as well ask why Kidtown junior craft club is for girls only but Kidtown athletics club is mixed. (And others have pointed out why the SA decided to admit girls.)

Yet if it was the other way around, everyone would be moaning that it's another way women are 'marginalised' or some other nonsense.

CurlewKate · 16/08/2023 10:27

@Deathbyfluffy "Yet if it was the other way around, everyone would be moaning that it's another way women are 'marginalised' or some other nonsense."
I have lost count of the number of posts explaining why Scouts became
mixed and Guides remained single
sex,but I'm happy to explain again. Both organisations were given the opportunity to decide whether to be mixed or single sex. The Scouts made a pragmatic decision based on falling rolls to become mixed. The Guides who did not have that problem decided to remain single sex. That's it.

PuttingDownRoots · 16/08/2023 10:33

I'd like to point out as well... there have been several scout groups close in our district recently. Not due to lack of children. .. lack of adults. If we want our children to have these opportunities, be it Scouts, Guides, Cadets, Football clubs etc Adults need to step up. Including men.

We have 5 regular leaders covering 3 sections in our Scout troop... (1 man, 4 women). The male leader actually covers all three sections, as well as helping with grounds and hut maintenance.

budgiegirl · 16/08/2023 19:20

If we want our children to have these opportunities, be it Scouts, Guides, Cadets, Football clubs etc Adults need to step up. Including men

To be fair, many clubs do have men volunteering. Almost all football coaches at mixed groups are men, and this is also the case at Army Cadets and Sea Cadets near me. Our scout group has a total of 21 leaders, and 12 of them are men.

But I agree that all clubs could probably do with more leaders. Even with the number we have at scouts, we still have to run a waiting list for Beavers, and when my DH ran a football club, he always had a massive waiting list.

drinkuptheezider · 17/08/2023 13:28

The issue of male volunteers also skirts round the fact men are viewed to be perverts if they are around children views that many hold. A lot of men who would do volunteering shy away from it. Scout leader 'jokes' are aimed at men.

BigFatLiar · 18/08/2023 09:15

drinkuptheezider · 17/08/2023 13:28

The issue of male volunteers also skirts round the fact men are viewed to be perverts if they are around children views that many hold. A lot of men who would do volunteering shy away from it. Scout leader 'jokes' are aimed at men.

When our girls were little there were no male teachers in the primary. When I went to primary there were three that I can remember.
Don't know if it's changed much.

Enthusedeggplant · 18/08/2023 09:36

Parents are often horrifically entitled when it comes to groups for their offspring. Too many want want want without any thought of stepping up. Let them gripe away.

aSofaNearYou · 18/08/2023 10:38

I think the reality is it gets people's backs up more when girls are excluded from "boy things" than when boys are excluded from "girl things" because of the long history of sexism and limitations towards girls. I think that's pretty understandable, even if logically it might be acceptable for both to have their own space.

Peony654 · 18/08/2023 10:40

It's good he's happy, but I do find the idea of single sex groups very bizarre. That's not the real world.

rookiemere · 18/08/2023 10:49

Peony654 · 18/08/2023 10:40

It's good he's happy, but I do find the idea of single sex groups very bizarre. That's not the real world.

I think single sex groups give DCs a chance to develop and make friendships without additional complications. We may like to pretend it's otherwise but many girls and boys friendships operate in different ways.
I was sent to a single sex school as it was allegedly better for me academically, and I don't really agree with that as I didn't learn how to interact with the opposite sex until university which is a bit too late, but I absolutely believe there is a space for single sex activities.

CurlewKate · 18/08/2023 10:56

One of the reasons Guides remained single sex is that there are many girls who for religious or cultural reasons could not be fully involved in a mixed group.

Budgiegirlbob · 18/08/2023 12:45

rookiemere · 18/08/2023 10:49

I think single sex groups give DCs a chance to develop and make friendships without additional complications. We may like to pretend it's otherwise but many girls and boys friendships operate in different ways.
I was sent to a single sex school as it was allegedly better for me academically, and I don't really agree with that as I didn't learn how to interact with the opposite sex until university which is a bit too late, but I absolutely believe there is a space for single sex activities.

Show quote history

I agree with this. For my daughter, mixed sex groups (ie Scouts) has been great, as she goes to a single sex school. There’s space for all these things - mixed sex schools and clubs, single sex schools and clubs.

However, it’s not ok for parents to want their daughters to muscle in to a boys-only group, just because it’s successful. They can set up their own, if there’s the demand for it.

BeverlyBrook · 18/08/2023 12:54

CurlewKate · 18/08/2023 10:56

One of the reasons Guides remained single sex is that there are many girls who for religious or cultural reasons could not be fully involved in a mixed group.

Sorry but guides is not single sex any more. Self identifying girls can join.

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