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Original poster

Boys only spaces - understanding the resentment

74 replies

Summerhasfinallyarrived · 09/08/2023 09:00

I’m hoping for the thoughts of others on this.

My son is six and belongs to a boys only group. It has been brilliant for him and (without wanting to be dramatic) has had a hugely positive impact on his life. I’m a single parent and he has very limited male role models. He doesn’t really fit in with the other boys at school but this group has welcomed him and the older boys really look out for the younger ones, he really is flourishing. There are many other similar groups for both boys and girls to attend locally but I have been astonished by the resentment expressed by other mums.

For context, he found it very difficult in reception when his friends went to rainbows and he couldn’t, I explained why and told him he could go to Beavers in Year one. Unfortunately by the time he was old enough all the spaces were gone (he is young in the year). Most of his friends went who also attended rainbows so it felt like he was doubly excluded. I was so pleased to find this one thing for him where he can really be himself and can’t for the life of me understand the comments/resentment. The group is doing really well and there are calls for it to be opened up to girls or a similar group set up for girls only. So far the organisers have resisted but I think it will only be a matter of time.

Finally do others know of similar groups I could look for for him in case this one does change?

OP posts:
continentallentil · 09/08/2023 17:25

Phos · 09/08/2023 15:42

But let’s wilfully ignore the fact that boys have been denied their own space for years since girls were allowed to join Scouts and STILL get Guides to themselves. Because that’s just inconvenient and doesn’t fit the narrative does it.

Show quote history

Scouts opened up to girls in order to survive, same reason boys’ schools open up to girls.

They didn’t do it to be nice or inclusive, they had a numbers problem.

CurlewKate · 09/08/2023 17:32

What is the reason given for it being unfair? Unless it is gatekeeping a particular activity I can't see a problem. Girl Guiding remains girls only- Scouts only went mixed because rolls were falling so dramatically.

CurlewKate · 09/08/2023 17:36

@rookiemere
"Not even when it was getting awkward for DS and their friends to share a mixed tent in scouts when camping at age 10-11. He said he felt uncomfortable getting changed."

Scouts do not share facilities-I suggest you take this up with the captain initially and go higher if you don't get a satisfactory answer.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

6 year olds Primary education
CuntRYMusicStar · 09/08/2023 17:48

rookiemere · 09/08/2023 15:47

Agreed @Phos no one ever mentions this.

Not even when it was getting awkward for DS and their friends to share a mixed tent in scouts when camping at age 10-11. He said he felt uncomfortable getting changed.

It feels a little unfair that boys seem to be allowed nothing to themselves.

@rookiemere - my ds just did cub camp and the girls had a separate tent and both sexes has separate, locking toilet and shower facilities. It sounds like a huge issue at the scouts your son goes to because he definitely shouldn't have been sharing mixed sex facilities!

ehb102 · 09/08/2023 17:49

I've got tough about grass roots parental involvement now. You want it, you do it. I do things for MY child. You do things for YOUR child. I happen to have the generosity to extend the benefits to 20 or so other children. Now it's your turn. No parent leader, no go.

CurlewKate · 09/08/2023 17:52

There's always someone on threads like this complaining about Scouts becoming mixed. They tend to pipe down when it's pointed out that they had a choice between becoming mixed and folding because of lack of numbers.

PuttingDownRoots · 09/08/2023 17:58

CurlewKate · 09/08/2023 17:52

There's always someone on threads like this complaining about Scouts becoming mixed. They tend to pipe down when it's pointed out that they had a choice between becoming mixed and folding because of lack of numbers.

We definitely couldn't fill our Scout Troop with just boys... at one point it was 80% girls but back to nearly 50:50 again. Beavers and Cubs mainly.

However football clubs can easily overflow with boys!

But if this particular club of OPS can fill with just boys they don't need open to girls.

CurlewKate · 09/08/2023 18:02

@PuttingDownRoots Yep-ours is sometimes girl-heavy! One of the problems too is that girls tend to be over represented as patrol leaders and so on. I do think that's something that needs to be addressed-but I have no idea how!

CuntRYMusicStar · 09/08/2023 18:09

@Summerhasfinallyarrived - I am confused - having a summer birthday shouldn't be an issue for beavers as children should also be moving up - there may be a delay of a couple of months but he should get a space if he's on the list?

I agree the group shouldn't have to be mixed sex, but if other parents want to set up a girls only then that wouldn't impact you? I have a daughter and she loves the single sex groups because they're not over run by boys being loud. My son loves mixed groups because he likes to play with everyone so I can see the benefit of both!

drinkuptheezider · 09/08/2023 18:15

Back in the 90s, DH and I ran a scout and cub pack in a very rural area. It was just as they started to go mixed and was group by group decision. We had 26 scouts and 15 cubs, good numbers for the demographics, and we gave the boys a vote as to whether girls joined . Only 1 boy wanted his sister to be able to join. It stayed single sex until it was forced on them, and the boys dropped off. I understand they have increased their numbers greatly by having girls, but it was viable for that group to stay male only.
I do think that where viable groups should be able to stipulate single sex.

CurlewKate · 09/08/2023 18:22

@drinkuptheezider
It wasn't a vote for individual groups or for the children- it was a vote taken by the organisation.

EarthlyNightshade · 09/08/2023 18:28

rookiemere · 09/08/2023 15:47

Agreed @Phos no one ever mentions this.

Not even when it was getting awkward for DS and their friends to share a mixed tent in scouts when camping at age 10-11. He said he felt uncomfortable getting changed.

It feels a little unfair that boys seem to be allowed nothing to themselves.

Pretty shocking they had to share tents.
Was this recently, because I think it should be reported?
My family have been involved in various scout groups and tents were always separate for boys and girls.

WhamBamThankU · 09/08/2023 18:29

I understand what you're saying OP, you have nothing against a girls only group but don't want your sons group to become mixed due to there not being a girls only group. I'm with you, each sex should have their own group if there's need for it, but the girls parents need to step up, not take time from your sons leaders.

budgiegirl · 15/08/2023 20:16

Scouts do not share facilities-I suggest you take this up with the captain initially and go higher if you don't get a satisfactory answer

Scouts absolutely can share facilities, from beaver age right up to explorers. However, this tends to be avoided wherever possible, and if it is necessary, then the issue should be communicated in advance to both parents and young people, to let them know and give them a chance to raise any concerns.

For example, we recently went on a residential trip with bedrooms sharing up to 6 cubs in each. We only had one girl with us, so we gave her the option of sharing with the boys, or having her own room. She chose to share, and we made sure all parents were ok with this before final decisions were made. We also made sure that she had a separate area to change/wash if she wanted.

Not even when it was getting awkward for DS and their friends to share a mixed tent in scouts when camping at age 10-11. He said he felt uncomfortable getting changed

While mixed tents are allowed, this should have been communicated to you in advance, giving the opportunity for you to raise concerns. If this wasn't done, then you should raise this with your DS's scout leaders, and make sure that your DS's worries are taken into account in future.

rookiemere · 15/08/2023 20:22

@budgiegirl it's tricky because we knew the girl in question and her parents,and it would have been really awkward to raise concerns about it. I would have preferred that DS and I weren't put in that situation in the first place.

However I hadn't realised that scouts opened up to girls because of dwindling numbers so I guess there isn't much demand for boys only spaces.

StephanieSuperpowers · 15/08/2023 20:27

Definitely not unreasonable, OP. The boy's group sounds great and like it's catering to a specific need very successfully. Boys should be allowed their own space. If the group is offering something that the girl's parents want to access, they need to set up their own group, not spoil yhe boy's one.

budgiegirl · 15/08/2023 20:29

@budgiegirl it's tricky because we knew the girl in question and her parents,and it would have been really awkward to raise concerns about it. I would have preferred that DS and I weren't put in that situation in the first place

I can see that's a bit awkward, but any concerns you raise with scout leaders should be confidential, it would be fine to tell them that you don't want your DS to be sharing, and they shouldn't discuss this with other parents. Your DS's worries should trump any awkwardness, and surely most adults would understand a child's concerns regarding mixed tents.

TeenDivided · 16/08/2023 07:56

@budgiegirl For example, we recently went on a residential trip with bedrooms sharing up to 6 cubs in each. We only had one girl with us, so we gave her the option of sharing with the boys, or having her own room. She chose to share, and we made sure all parents were ok with this before final decisions were made. We also made sure that she had a separate area to change/wash if she wanted.

As a matter if interest, did you also give the boys the choice of sharing rooms/facilities with her, or not?

If you didn't then it mirrors the situation where TW/transboys are being foisted on women/girls without their consent.

Presumably you wouldn't let mixed scouts share without consent from both sides?

Budgiegirlbob · 16/08/2023 08:03

TeenDivided · 16/08/2023 07:56

@budgiegirl For example, we recently went on a residential trip with bedrooms sharing up to 6 cubs in each. We only had one girl with us, so we gave her the option of sharing with the boys, or having her own room. She chose to share, and we made sure all parents were ok with this before final decisions were made. We also made sure that she had a separate area to change/wash if she wanted.

As a matter if interest, did you also give the boys the choice of sharing rooms/facilities with her, or not?

If you didn't then it mirrors the situation where TW/transboys are being foisted on women/girls without their consent.

Presumably you wouldn't let mixed scouts share without consent from both sides?

Yes, of course. When sending out the information I told all parents that there may be some mixed accommodation and to contact me if they had any questions/concerns. A couple of parents did ask for single sex accommodation for their child, and that was fine.

TeenDivided · 16/08/2023 08:04

@Budgiegirlbob Super. That's how it should be. Smile

Quirrelsotherface · 16/08/2023 08:05

I don't understand the double standard in that boys aren't allowed to join Rainbows or Brownies and yet girls are allowed to join Beavers and Cubs.

It's beneficial for boys to have their own space just as much as it is for girls. My own son left Beavers because a large group of girls joined and were basically being giggly and silly throughout the whole thing and were preventing the sessions from running how they should.

Half the time I think it's the parents wanting to be cool and progressive by sending their girls to traditional boys things..by Cubs the girls has lost interest so left.

It's ok for boys to have their own groups!

gogomoto · 16/08/2023 08:06

The issue is that brownies was rubbish compared to cubs, we weren't even allowed to camp (we stayed in dorms). Equal same sex orgs are fine but they weren't back in the day

titchy · 16/08/2023 08:08

I don't understand the double standard in that boys aren't allowed to join Rainbows or Brownies and yet girls are allowed to join Beavers and Cubs.

Do you understand the concept of two completely separate organisations having different rules? They're not the same as each other - you may as well ask why Kidtown junior craft club is for girls only but Kidtown athletics club is mixed. (And others have pointed out why the SA decided to admit girls.)

titchy · 16/08/2023 08:08

I agree it is ok, good even, for boys to have their own space btw, but if they'd stayed single sex they'd have folded years ago.

Budgiegirlbob · 16/08/2023 08:22

Quirrelsotherface · 16/08/2023 08:05

I don't understand the double standard in that boys aren't allowed to join Rainbows or Brownies and yet girls are allowed to join Beavers and Cubs.

It's beneficial for boys to have their own space just as much as it is for girls. My own son left Beavers because a large group of girls joined and were basically being giggly and silly throughout the whole thing and were preventing the sessions from running how they should.

Half the time I think it's the parents wanting to be cool and progressive by sending their girls to traditional boys things..by Cubs the girls has lost interest so left.

It's ok for boys to have their own groups!

It’s not double standards, it’s two separate organisations choosing to run how they see fit.

In our town, there is Boys Brigade, which has remained boys only, so there is the choice of a boys only club. It’s not up to Scouts to have to provide this - anyone can set up a boys club if they want to.

And I don’t know of a single parent who sent their daughter to my cub pack because they think it’s cool and progressive. They send them because they think their child will enjoy it. Which most do. My own DD started in Rainbows, but moved on to cubs, loved it, and moved up through scouts, explorers and network.