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What defines "class" in a family?

153 replies

chatenoire · 07/08/2023 07:41

It got me thinking as my DH would be considered WC on his own (manual work low salary, GCSE), whereas I come from a more middle class (parents went to uni, I have a master's). Our joint income is just above £100k. So my assumption is that as a family we're MC.

Joint interests are going on mini breaks, a bit outdoorsy (but no camping!), the arts, but we also like going to your average indie gig.

OP posts:
HarrietJet · 07/08/2023 15:18

3luckystars · 07/08/2023 14:12

I meant to say I’m glad I live in Ireland because I would be in the wrong ‘class’ definitely 😂not because I think it’s bad or anything.
it’s really fascinating how you do it

It's usually the ones who are terrified they might be the wrong class who do it 😂

SoCentralRain · 07/08/2023 15:32

It’s the people like Hyacinth Bucket who are obsessed with class so I suppose WC trying to be seen as MC. Normal WC, MC or UC people don’t really care, they just get on with their lives. There is such a mix and cross over these days with the education system/well paid jobs etc too that it’s impossible to categorise most people.

Bugbabe1970 · 07/08/2023 15:43

We earn over your income as a family and have a large amount in savings - I will always cinder myself working class. We both have degrees and good jobs.

The class system in this country, does not slow people to move up their class no matter how much you earn or how well educated you are...and anyway! Who cares!

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

LadyEloise1 · 07/08/2023 16:12

geoger · 07/08/2023 07:58

Isn’t class defined by the bread one eats?
white sliced = working class
artisan organic sour dough = middle class
made by the peasants who work on your land using the wheat from your estate = upper class

😂

Floppyear · 07/08/2023 16:17

This is an Op who grew up thinking her parents were very liberal and open… discussing Dantes, g spots and class

and then she gets a boyfriend earning considerably less than her

and suddenly their prejudices emerge and the op is left confused hence this thread

Karwomannghia · 07/08/2023 16:22

imactuallyfine · 07/08/2023 13:42

@Karwomannghia What do MC people call the lounge?
what do they call the sofa?

Is it true they call a patio a terrace?

Yes as pp, lounge is sitting room, sofa is sofa and I thought patio and terraces were different things- a patio is a level stone surface outside whereas a terrace is raised surely? If you were to suggest drinks on the terrace and then sit on a patio it would definitely be over egging the pudding.

Karwomannghia · 07/08/2023 16:22

However I will check with my mum and report back.

CrazyArmadilloLady · 07/08/2023 17:51

Floppyear · 07/08/2023 12:25

At home when I was growing up we talked about it all the time, my dad read philosophy at uni and my DM history, so it did come up all the time.

of all the interesting issues and topics you could have been discussing instead of… class 😞

The irony.

Here you are, avidly refreshing and posting on a thread about …. class.

Flyingalone · 07/08/2023 17:58

Coffeedrinker7 · 07/08/2023 14:01

The only time class is mentioned in this house is when we roll our eyes at our middle class
children discussing the merits of different flavours of houmous or asking for a halloumi wrap for their packed lunch… I didn’t taste either of those until I was at least 25 and packed lunch was always a cheddar cheese sandwich and packet of crisps! That might be more an age thing though.

Kids eating hummus is middle class 🤣🤣🤣 It's literally chickpeas 😂

crazeekat · 07/08/2023 19:14

in this day and age there should only be 1 class. and that is working. bar people obviously with physical/mental issues who can't.
there's no place in society these days for anything else. it's not the victorian era. if u work. at any job, your working class. the definition of classes these days as per social demographics, area of living, occupation, education are all by the by. even royals now "work".

HarrietJet · 07/08/2023 19:40

Flyingalone · 07/08/2023 17:58

Kids eating hummus is middle class 🤣🤣🤣 It's literally chickpeas 😂

This is always trotted out as a class signifier. Along with olives 😂
It tells it's own tale when someone claims the world can see they're middle class because their kids eat these everyday snacks.

wigywhoo · 07/08/2023 19:45

crazeekat · 07/08/2023 19:14

in this day and age there should only be 1 class. and that is working. bar people obviously with physical/mental issues who can't.
there's no place in society these days for anything else. it's not the victorian era. if u work. at any job, your working class. the definition of classes these days as per social demographics, area of living, occupation, education are all by the by. even royals now "work".

Oh how dreary and "right on" 🤣

Comfortablechair · 07/08/2023 19:51

@OnaHotTinRoofNow fair question…my friend is a sociologist and broke it down for me…

working class - manual labour, typically education GCSE, a trade
lower middle class - typically public or civil servants, low level admin,
middle class - typically mid ranking professionals ie accountant, finance, good public schools, one hol abroad a year,
uni qualified
upper middle class - educated,
high ranking professional, Home Counties, hols abroad, private schools, private healthcare
upper class- family money, multi millionaires, best schools and weathly

id suggest with 100k joint salary you’d be middle class but I also think it’s a mindset as much as anything so you can adapt and move between

interesting question…

Merapi · 07/08/2023 19:57

geoger · 07/08/2023 07:58

Isn’t class defined by the bread one eats?
white sliced = working class
artisan organic sour dough = middle class
made by the peasants who work on your land using the wheat from your estate = upper class

Surely it is by water features... inflatable hot tub at one end and a lake landscaped by Capability Brown at the other?

chatenoire · 07/08/2023 20:17

Comfortablechair · 07/08/2023 19:51

@OnaHotTinRoofNow fair question…my friend is a sociologist and broke it down for me…

working class - manual labour, typically education GCSE, a trade
lower middle class - typically public or civil servants, low level admin,
middle class - typically mid ranking professionals ie accountant, finance, good public schools, one hol abroad a year,
uni qualified
upper middle class - educated,
high ranking professional, Home Counties, hols abroad, private schools, private healthcare
upper class- family money, multi millionaires, best schools and weathly

id suggest with 100k joint salary you’d be middle class but I also think it’s a mindset as much as anything so you can adapt and move between

interesting question…

Growing up I was definitely upper middle.

OP posts:
Ohthatsabitshit · 07/08/2023 20:23

Anyone who mentions money in their formula for class doesn’t understand it at all.

CrazyArmadilloLady · 07/08/2023 20:26

HarrietJet · 07/08/2023 19:40

This is always trotted out as a class signifier. Along with olives 😂
It tells it's own tale when someone claims the world can see they're middle class because their kids eat these everyday snacks.

They’re ‘everyday snacks’ for you and me.

But they’re very much not ‘everyday snacks’ for people that …. don’t eat them.

There are vast swathes of people out there who subsist on crap,
highly processed shit, who’ve barely encountered an olive or a chickpea in their life.

Food absolutely is one of many class markers. On its own, it means nothing. It’s a marker, as part of many other things.

CrazyArmadilloLady · 07/08/2023 20:31

Comfortablechair · 07/08/2023 19:51

@OnaHotTinRoofNow fair question…my friend is a sociologist and broke it down for me…

working class - manual labour, typically education GCSE, a trade
lower middle class - typically public or civil servants, low level admin,
middle class - typically mid ranking professionals ie accountant, finance, good public schools, one hol abroad a year,
uni qualified
upper middle class - educated,
high ranking professional, Home Counties, hols abroad, private schools, private healthcare
upper class- family money, multi millionaires, best schools and weathly

id suggest with 100k joint salary you’d be middle class but I also think it’s a mindset as much as anything so you can adapt and move between

interesting question…

But even this list does not work.

You will have upper middles who are civil servants (I know you said ‘typically’, but the (esp. senior) civil service is littered with UMC and U).

You’ll have WC and LMC who live in the Home Counties (Berkshire, for example, has some very LMC areas).

A £100K salary is no indicator whatsoever - a plumber could bring that home.

Class is the very definition of ‘greater than the sum of its parts’. You cannot write out a check list for it.

chatenoire · 07/08/2023 20:33

Ohthatsabitshit · 07/08/2023 20:23

Anyone who mentions money in their formula for class doesn’t understand it at all.

But it DOES matter that's how the bourgeoisie was born

OP posts:
Threenow · 07/08/2023 20:44

3luckystars · 07/08/2023 14:07

I am so glad I live in Ireland and none of this exists. If I said ‘middle class’ it would be considered an insult. ‘Working class’ or any of those phrases I have never even heard a person say in real life here.

we obviously all earn different amounts and live in different areas but most people with jobs are ‘respectable’ people and that’s the only thing I have never heard here.

is the class ‘thing’ just in England, or does it exist in other countries?
It seems really complicated, are you always trying to figure out where someone fits in?

It's all very weird isn't it? I'm so glad my great-grandparents had the sense to leave the UK and make a life elsewhere, away from this utter rubbish.

CrazyArmadilloLady · 07/08/2023 21:03

Ireland is a much more egalitarian society, but you’re naive if you think class doesn’t exist there.

Class is the UK’s thing, like race is the US’s. But class exists in most societies, like it or not.

I live in what was once a very egalitarian country, but the rich have definitely got richer and the poor have got poorer. Class exists all over the world, and in all sorts of societies and cultures.

People love to be so superior (no irony there, not at all!) about the issue of class, deeming it beneath them to be bothered by it, or to wish to discuss it - yet here you all are, refreshing and filling up this thread!

And that’s OK. It’s a fascinating topic. Anyone with an ounce of curiosity about human behaviour, psychology, sociology, anthropology, history, etc, etc, etc will find it an interesting topic to delve into.

And the UK, in particular, is such an interesting case study.

Elsewhere in the world, accents are decided by region, and while that’s also true of the UK, as soon as someone opens their mouth, they give away a huge class indicator. It means some aspects are very entrenched and resistant to change.

But even in a country like mine, where there is very little difference in accents, you will still be able to glean information about a person’s social standing from the way they speak.

It’s just really interesting the way we, as humans, have such an innate need to group and sort ourselves. To want to belong, and likewise, to want to escape.

Threenow · 07/08/2023 22:15

The rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer doesn't have anything to do with class.

Coffeedrinker7 · 07/08/2023 22:15

HarrietJet · 07/08/2023 19:40

This is always trotted out as a class signifier. Along with olives 😂
It tells it's own tale when someone claims the world can see they're middle class because their kids eat these everyday snacks.

I think you misunderstood- we roll our eyes at our ‘middle class’ kids as a joke because we both grew up very much working class northern and yet the things our kids sometimes come out with seem stereotypically middle class to us (and yes they also like olives, as do I!) Like I said, it’s probably more an age thing- I don’t think they sold houmous, or chick peas for that matter, in Kwik Save in the 80s!

i have no idea if we would be considered middle class by your standards and I don’t really care, I don’t think it’s something anybody takes remotely seriously anymore.

CrazyArmadilloLady · 07/08/2023 23:01

Threenow · 07/08/2023 22:15

The rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer doesn't have anything to do with class.

Said by someone who’s never lived in a country that could even vaguely claim to be egalitarian, and who has watched that change for the worse over the past generation.

I am talking about class in my country. The rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer absolutely has a great deal to do with class here.

Class wasn’t really A Thing here when I was a child.

It is now.

RudsyFarmer · 07/08/2023 23:09

My DP was privately educated with a degree and high paying job. He was with an equally high earner until he dumbed down and got with me. His parents were working class and my parents were lower middle class. Somehow we very effectively meet in the middle. Our kids are definitely middle class though.