Earning £60k aged 23.

[sandycracks]

If someone told you that their child was 23 and already earning £60k, would you believe them?

@ErrolTheDragon

di you know why, Errol? I’ve just completed a software development boot camp ( Java) and am a bit surprised ( and confused) at the salaries in london

Why there's a wide range of salaries for 'software developers'? Because that term covers a massive range of roles and required skill levels.

"So, law and finance - can believe there is more here but at 23? How wonderful is this person? What I can believe is that they are the daughter of the boss or something but unfortunately I struggle to see this salary with the the people I regularly meet here"

They will have a mix of skills necessary for the job including high exam grades.

You can do a google search trainee solicitor, linkedin and then the name of a big city firm where the few equity partners are on £1m a year plus to see who these people are. Let me try it with, say, Linklaters - I won't name this one (female), first one who came up - they often are women as they tend to work harder at school and more go to university than men these days...

1. First class degree Durham (history)
2. Boarding school 6th form presumably as parents live abroad as earlier education was abroad
3. The paralegal work abroad (quite unusual)
4. Presumably then found the job and was sponsored to do her post grad law year. Looks like had 18 months looking for the trianing probably during the pandemic so is likely to be a couple of years older than others.

Okay missed out the next one as she is another woman so let us go to the one [Ah thought I was going to find lots of contextual people which I sometimes do on this kind of search but...] 3rd on my search - male - another boarding school one (for sixth form) although he may have been a day boy, first in history from York,. Looks like gap year after university, then 2 years of post grad law studies, then looks like 2.5 years as a paralegal and then the TC.

Xenia I guess the trainees you mention above aren’t untypical, but I do worry that presenting a limited view of how to ‘get there’ can make these professions appear that much more closed and unattainable than they are. I’d hate to think that able kids (or parents discussing well paid roles with their kids) discount these jobs because they are worried their face doesn’t fit.

DH is a full equity partner in a City firm (comparable but more profitable and faster growing than the one you mentioned) and some of his best fee earners come from their school leavers programme. They are generally hardworking, popular, come from very diverse backgrounds and have a good chance of promotion into senior roles, once qualified. DH is the only privately educated equity partner in his team under 50 (whereas all the older ones are), and the only younger partner in his team whose own children attend private school. As a posh person, he’s a bit of an outlier!

The conversation is interesting to me as I’ve worked on various initiatives for my Royal College around increasing diversity in my own profession (medicine) and school leavers apprenticeships are very much in the pipeline.

Increasing the range of entry routes into professions will do so much to support young people from diverse backgrounds and I do hope parents (or young people) reading this thread will appreciate there are fair and open-minded recruitment practices happening in competitive firms, looking to recruit the best people.

@LabbyDabbyDoohDah

thats great to hear

I’m just struggling that’s all - I’ve never topped late 30s

degree ( not first, not Russel group)
post grad ( vocational, Russel group)
masters ( European)

Made the shift from teaching to technical - worked in academic/research areas now looking to move to industry as project manager - have lots of soft skills as well as technical - I’m just wondering how university makes such a difference compared to extensive experience

I like that some have tried to explain away my comment of as 'having an in' by citing going to top uni and being in the top percent to be snatched by magic circle firm (only on merit though which is just a very recent thing and not just a DEI initiative) as being achievable.

Same with some just brushing aside *some can make it in tech^, I would welcome you to come with me on talks I do that specifically targets women. We have an abundance of fall back in India etc and with the advent of AI that makes anyone using the likes of codeacadamy etc redundant because they have no real world experience and as most jobs, the more people at entry level the cost reduces.

I am proudly in the 1% uk wage bracket, english is my second language and I didn't go to uni, I got picked up from hard coding asp websites in the 90's and built myself up. I give talks to women monthly to bring more into tech, but I am realistic in what is achievable.

She’s not a lawyer but it’s something to do with global patents. Other than that I don’t know much more about it.

Ok. But having worked at another magic circle firm - not everyone goes to boarding school

probably grammar school, private or the brainiest of the comprehensives. Honestly not everyone is of money - it’s such a rigorous procedure

but what they do have is being able to work like machines, being super driven and super smart

most have gone to top universities for law or non law degrees and obtained firsts eg oxbridge, LSE, UCL, imperial, Bristol, Durham

most have thought about being a lawyer from their first year at uni - so going to career fairs, doing vacation placements, mooting, and more

I myself only got my training contract after establishing a business society at my redbrick uni where I organised events in partnership with a city law firm - before that I was overlooked a lot for interview or training contracts

Name I was very surprised but only had a few minutes and didn't think I should hide a result that was perhaps a bit of an outlier. However the very high exam results of them all did not surprise me for that firm and when I did a similar exercise last year for a similar firm and got to a list of about 10 or 11 trainees it was definitely a much more mixed picture -everyone had good exam results but there were clearly contextual applicants who had absolutely shone in very bad schools and universities which is more what I would have expected. In that search I also found quite a few who were stellar achievers educated abroad from all kinds of countries too - so kind of international competition although they may have done their first or second degree in the UK. Also I discovered some future or existing trainees might not have a linkedin profile and that it was less likely depending on their background. I suspect the clued up ones and perhaps middle class ones have people around them telling them to prepare one and not everyone does so my google search using linkedin as a search term is not necessarily anything more than highly anecdotal.

"what they do have is being able to work like machines, being super driven and super smart". I agree. Even the photographs I took on my old camera in the 1980s of piles of envelopes with applications in shows it was almost like a machine, never mind the work I put into my degree to come top in a good few subjects etc. and it paid off in my case.

May be I will try another firm now as I just finished some work (yes Sunday morning and I have just finished some work - I haven't really changed since the 70s and 80s working hard at school and in law firms).

Okay here comes another - big firm, male, Oxford (he does not have much on his profile, not even his school). Next one also male, state grammar, Exeter LLB, then a masters in law and then law school, Indian (probably British Indian). Next one male too, Durham, first, state grammar all A stars, doing his SQE course/year this coming academic year. Next one, another boy, Bristol first in law sounds Russian (bilingual in it). Not sure about school. I will stop now although there is a girl coming up - Ah she is from the NE, comprehensive, Aspire candidate, 2/1 leeds (history), then 4 years before doing her 2 years post grad law - that is a quite a gap. I think she may be mixed race. Anyway good luck to them all. I will stop my silly google searches now....

@Xenia

i also think that the ones with firsts are more likely to put that in their LinkedIn profile, no?

Yes.
My DS is that age. Most if his friends earn minimum wage or up to average salary but I am aware of one friend earns around £50k and another approx £90k at age 24. Interestingly the ones who went to uni are at opposite ends of the earnings spectrum - two attended specialised engineering and have very specialised roles, the ones earning least dropped out of their course and scraping min wage part time . Those who started work via an apprentice scheme are in the middle .

Well,, it's a weird question I mean if I knew them that's one thing but if I didn't know them why are they telling me this?

WTF wouldn't they? How odd .

Yes that’s very normal in a sales role.

In some jobs the pay is virtally public anyway eg you can look up the pay scales for teachers and doctors and lawyers online. You can look up the pay on the law websites above for people training and NQ, 1, 2 and 3 years qualified for many law firms. State jobs often have pay scales that are public. However I agree that not all children will tell their parents what they earn - it is up to the individual. Indeed in theory spouses don't have to tell each other (although the change to child benefit a few years ago drew a stake through the heart of that principle, sadly).

What's not to believe: wages in London are high. IT, Commercial Law, and Banking offer starting salaries of £40k for relevant graduates. So entirely possible I think.

Good luck to them