Forced return to office - anyone else?

[Flexipecs]

My work has announced we’re all being forced back into the office two days a week. I’m a sole parent of primary school aged children (no help from ex). If I’m forced to go into the office I’ll have to reduce my working hours and I’ll be financially worse off.

I’m going to contact my union but has anyone else had this problem and did you successfully challenge it?

There’s zero benefit to me being in the office. My stats and performance are high. I actually think I’m more productive at home because I’m not being distracted so often. I’ve worked for the company for a very long time and I’m really disappointed at this decision (to put it mildly).

@Jigslaw we know that's the case in lots of families. You see endless threads on here about the mental load and women working, doing 100% of the childcare and the housework.

It's still the reality for many, and this is just another burden to add to those women. In an ideal world they'd tell their husbands to fuck off and everything would be shared equally but it isn't the case.

Of course YABU OP. Your office is U.

As dodeca said quite rightly:

Doesn’t matter about what she did before COVID. The world has changed lots since then - ie, cost of living crisis wasn’t as much of a thing

what happened in the bad old pre Covid days of long commutes to the office for the types of job that could be done at home was, you paid a lot more for more closer to the office in town housing or you had a longer commute.

This cost a lot of money either way around and the commuting was far worse for the environment and for adult stress and for making kids spend much longer time in expensive childcare.

WFH enables more working parents to do more school or nursery pick ups and that costs parents a lot less financially and has other benefits for the family so is a highly relevant factor at the moment when everything has gone up so much. Especially if you’re in a job where wage increases are non existent or far below inflation. Or do people not think workers are needed in these type of roles?

They should indeed grow a backbone.

This. Why are people horrified at having to actually see other humans face to face for 2 out of their 5 working days. Has lockdown really made us this lazy and anti social.

When WFH first started for me back in 2020 it was an absolute boon for me. Finally I could get hold of my colleagues!

IME being in the office gave some people the perfect excuse to be unavailable. Constantly having meetings, going for coffee, having 'quick chats'. No doubt they felt they were networking but I'm not sure how genuinely productive this was.

These people were the loud voices calling for a return to the office.

Some people/some jobs suit WFH. Making blanket rules just to suit the loud voices can be counterproductive.

Fully wfh? Are they? I don't know anyone who still does 5 days a week at home with no expectation to go into office.

I haven't been to the office since March 2020. I was already WFH with occasional trips to the office before this. Some of my colleagues go into an office (not the office as we're spread across the country) but that's through preference.

People are getting to spend 5 days a week at home and only being asked to physically go to work for 2 days and it's not fair? Good grief.

Noone is saying they are doing childcare whilst working but cutting out a (sometimes lengthy) commute to the office makes the childcare drop offs/pick ups much easier for lots of people and allows either more time with family OR allows for more working hours (aka more income) that otherwise would be spent on a commute. Why do people still not get this?

I'm a 4 minute drive to my kids nursery/school from home. I'm an hour from the office. This is massive.

Glad you're able to easily manage the juggle and I assume have a support system to assist that. Not everyone does.

Is there no childminders or wrap around care in your area? Yes it’s expensive but that’s a cost you take on when you have children to allow yourself to work. It’s either that or a life on benefits until your child is old enough to get to and from school themselves, but by that time your career will be down the drain.

Some people are so hyponotised by "what we've always done" they can't see the bits that needed to change. Sitting in your chair for 9 hours performing work (realistically most office workers are not fully engaged the entire time they're in an office) is daft.

If you're lonely at home that's fine, go in. Some others will join. But for some of us the office is excruciating. Always has been but now the world has changed and we don't have to accept it.

I'm 5 days wfh. Some people I manage like to go into the office, others hate it and don't. We have a good team.

My friend employed someone to do something before covid that costs £30-£50 an hour. The employee started doing it remotely during lockdown and it worked well. That person left and my friend has replaced them with someone in the Philippines who does it for £5 an hour. If you can work completely remotely, there are plenty of people out there who will do it for less

And I don’t mean to sound unsympathetic, I was £18k a year for childcare for three children. But the alternative really is fucking your future over and sometimes you’ve got to think past when your children are no longer children.

Why would an employer want to pay the £35 AND rent for an office if this is a genuinely suitable alternative? Offshoring will happen either way.

It is still a big change to work mostly from home, just as things changed during covid surely logic follows that things also change again post covid. Hybrid working is a decent middle ground surely.

No. Hybrid working is not a compromise, it's just more pretending.

@mokebox the OP has said that her children are at home while she is working so she is doing childcare.

Once children are at school so many WFH parents work with their children after school and in the holidays, it happens in my workplace, other school parents do it.

The worst of the pandemic, including lock downs, is soon going to be 3 years ago!

I suspect businesses are running out of time to say 'this is a return to normal' in favour of 'this is a new expectation'.

Apart from anything else, commuting costs money and so those business that have not kept salaries in pace with inflation have given their employes an effective pay cut since before covid. I don't suppose they'd be that keen to return salaries to the 'old normal'

I'm NHS. It's the office that's the noisy/chaotic environment that makes phone calls with patients difficult. It's at home where I'm quiet and alone that those conversations are easier to have. Dc are teens though and well aware not to disturb when I'm working.

I work for a LA and a lot of people WFH every day with some teams coming into office once a week but theres no expectation you must come in 2 days a week etc
Mainly because they have sold the office for housing and are squeezing us into a much smaller office so its impossible for more than one sixth of workforce to come in at same time. Definetly saves LA a lot of money in running costs of large office and we now all buy own own stationery and some of our work equipment as trying to get anything out of LA is a long painful time consuming process.

Ive been training new members of staff so come into office one or two days a week as its easier train in person and you develop a better relationship with new team members.
New team members especially ones who have just left uni have struggled with WFH as they need mentoring.
I dont like the commute but once Im in i prefer it, i think its better for MH as I work in my bedroom so better home/ work separation. Hate going up to bed and seeing my dressing table set up as a desk. Probably different if you have a spare bedroom/ office.
I also work longer hours at home as its easier to start earlier finish later not have a proper lunch. Less boundaries. Now my DH and young adult DC are home most of the time WFH I find theres a lot more housework too which seems disproprtionately fall to me!

And, as someone who has worked with businesses who were trying to offshore - it really is not as easy and as cheap as every keeps saying.

At best, it was a 50% reduction on total operating costs (often much closer to 25%) and it often involved countries with much bigger salary raise expectations per year, meaning the reduction in costs reduced year on year at quite a rate.

I'm NHS. It's the office that's the noisy/chaotic environment that makes phone calls with patients difficult.

Gotta agree with this. I'm not directly NHS but now work on an NHS contract and often talk to NHS staff in too small an office, often with other people and background noise and poorer wifi coverage (especially in the older hospitals which struggle with this).

If your contract says your work location is the office or 'where the company sees fit' then you don't have a leg to stand on.

If your contract was changed to say WFH location you can go to your union as essentially they're requesting a change to your terms of employment.

Two days in the office is reasonable and a bonus. If people have young children they need childcare for their working hours. I have a colleague who is not available for a one hour meeting between 2.30 and 4.30 due to school runs. Other senior staff diaries are rammed and it does push back important meetings by days, sometimes more than a week if slots can't be found. It also sets a poor example.for more junior staff who are more directly customer facing and expect the same flexibility.

The rules have to be applied equitably and managers need to lead from the front.

I think a lot of information is picked up in the office, many more things can be sorted with a quick chat on the way through the office rather than putting 15 minutes in the diary for a teams call which cuts into periods set aside for work/other meetings, etc. So much learning takes place informally, on the job. It's harder to pick up nuance on teams and to read the room and build relationships.

Finally, work is also a social construct and travelling there supports the infrastructure on which our society is built and with it other people's livelihoods. Transport, cafes, city centre shops, etc.

If I need one of my staff at 3pm, I expect them to be available or in a work.meeting, on another call if they aren't. At 4pm they need to be at work not rubbing a bruised knee, hurt finger, etc, due to lack of supervision because they can't work and fulfil adequate childcare.

You still have the power to politely say no. Most places will just accept it.