Forced return to office - anyone else?

[Flexipecs]

My work has announced we’re all being forced back into the office two days a week. I’m a sole parent of primary school aged children (no help from ex). If I’m forced to go into the office I’ll have to reduce my working hours and I’ll be financially worse off.

I’m going to contact my union but has anyone else had this problem and did you successfully challenge it?

There’s zero benefit to me being in the office. My stats and performance are high. I actually think I’m more productive at home because I’m not being distracted so often. I’ve worked for the company for a very long time and I’m really disappointed at this decision (to put it mildly).

It's very hard to find appropriately qualified staff in many skilled sectors. If employers didn't need you they wouldn't be spending money on you. Don't act like they're amazing benefactors.

Treat employees with respect and as adults, and they'll act as such.

Goodness, you must have led a sheltered life.

In the real world, as opposed to the MN world, there are a lot of office jobs which don't require much other than basic skills. I never said employers are amazing benefactors, but there seems to be a very entitled attitude amongst the UK workforce that everything should revolve around what the employee wants. It's like a different world.

Reliable staff with sound skills remain at a premium at all levels. Why do you think pay is so high in scandi countries? Because employees know their value and stick together.

Haha no. I just know that cracking down hard never works as a means of getting the best out of people. Giving people autonomy and respect (usually) does. If it doesn't, have a look at what else you can do as a employer or manager to better motivate your staff. If you can't do that, it's more than likely a you problem (which from your comment, I suspect it is).

Surely 3 days wfh is being flexible?

@NerrSnerr I agree with this completely. I am sick of people not thinking about the future and planning fail safes. If WFH is not in your contract, it is silly to assume it would continue on forever.

Again, I'm not talking about working and doing childcare at the same time, I'm talking about how much a commute eats into the day, time you could actually be working if you were at home, whilst also being able to fit in childcare pick ups/drop offs without a reduction in your working hours.

They're not doing it on a whim no, but they're not looking at the bigger picture either and as usual, are not considering the needs of working parents (usually mothers) either. Like it or not, it's just standard patriarchy in the work place again and again. We need to think more progressively.

Hi OP

Sorry if this has already been covered but I am loathe to scroll through 12 pages of corporate bootlicking and women who want everyone else to suffer just because they had to.

The flexible working bill has just passed, which gives you the right to request flexible working twice a year. The onus is now on the employer to demonstrate why it WOULD NOT work and they have to show they have explored all avenues.

Its absolutely worth a chat with your manager and HR. A good company wants to retain talent and boost your loyalty to them. Helping you now means you help them further along the road.

Well said.

Corporate bootlicking it is. Those on here who so venomously want to protect the "productivity" of the corporations and businesses they work for (or own) at the expense of the wellbeing, resilience & mental health of fellow working mothers really want to check themselves

Yes, for some people. For some people it's not enough or too much. Being flexible means understanding that one size doesn't fit all.

Many economists consider that an unemployment rate of 5% or less is 'full employment' . Which is when there are enough workers without jobs to to minimise inflation and allow workers to move between jobs, with those wanting full-time work be able to find it. Given that UK unemployment is less than 4%, I'd say that employers do need to focus on what the employee wants to hire/retain/motivate staff. There could well be a lot of jobs that don't require anything other than basic skills (I'm not sure that's true), but if there are more jobs than people it doesn't matter what the employer thinks or what skills are required. So in a sense it is a different world!

One could argue that, in part, its a consequnce of a policy of in-work benefits (Blair/Brown) that were orginally introduced to give the illusion of more employment when unemployment was high by subsidising part time / low paid jobs. This took people out of the unemployed category, but didn't really create any skilled jobs, or develop skills in people. Unemployment was 7% when they came to power and 8% when they lost it.

But now we are in the position we don't have an unemployment problem, quite the reverse, but employers / empoyees were hooked on the drug of in work benefits, and have had no incentive to up-skill, automate, invest, because cheap labour was available. But now it's not. Hence the proliferation of self checkouts everywhere, companies pushing 'admin' to their customers, shorter opeing hours and complaints about shortages of staff and rising wages/salaries. At the bottom end that's a good thing - the minimum wage should always have been a floor, not a cap, and now employers are having to pay more than minium wage for jobs that historically would never have been paid more than the minimum, just to compete for staff. Softer benefits like working from home are just another tool to get / keep the best staff. It's not just a UK problem either, its a european (continent, not political institution) issue.

@mokebox

Corporate bootlicking it is. Those on here who so venomously want to protect the "productivity" of the corporations and businesses they work for (or own) at the expense of the wellbeing, resilience & mental health of fellow working mothers really want to check themselves

This isn't the reason why I think WFH is bad for mothers. It's because many working mothers with primary age children are having to work from home AND care for kids at the same time. How does that help their well-being, resilience and mental health? The times I have had to WFH and do childcare (snow days, child illness etc) it has been exhausting.

It's almost always the mums who feel the need to do this, dads seem to get a free pass to do as they wish.

We know you've talked a lot about your own individual circumstances but everyone is different and I cannot see how being expected to work and care for children at the same time helps anyone.

Just step back and look at the big picture...

Pre covid flexible working was mainly restricted to formal requests or those few companies that put employees first otherwise everyone went to the office 5 days a week

Fast forward we now have more flexibility, majority of companies now want a blended style e.g. 2 to 3 days in the office, the new flexible working bill gives more options to apply for formal flexible arrangement then before. There are some companies you have gone fully remote.

So what it comes down to is if you don't like what your company offers then go find a job that does and good luck to you, you might find that fully remote job but it might not pay as much.

There are pro and cons to it all just pick your posion so to speak.

And as for those saying ppl won't join a company well flexibility is one decision in a list of reasons to join or not join a company. Depends on what you value the most.

End of the day we should be glad we are not back to 5 days in the office.

I've seen people moaning we are back 3 days a week, said they would leave....they didn't leave wonder why they stayed then...strange that, they were so adamant about want to wfh full time but yet didn't leave to find a job that would give them that...

Who is expecting mothers to work while caring for children?

THIS.

People decrying having to work any number of days in the office fail to see they’re writing their own obituaries. If you can increase productivity at home, imagine how the business would benefit from replacing you with someone in a country with equal or higher levels of education, lower salaries, poorer employee protection. You have no grasp of your vulnerability.

Not everything job can be easily outsourced overseas. You may have UK based qualifications which are legally required to do your job. There are laws preventing some transfer of certain data abroad.
If it can be outsourced abroad more cheaply why going into sit at a office is going to stop a company doing this?

It does smell a bit horrible .

and yes the loos don’t flush so when you go in it’s like poo/ tampon roulette.

This is nonsense. It's been 20+ years since unskilled jobs (call centres, manufacturing) were relocated to places abroad where cheap labour could be exploited.
I can appreciate how someone who doesn't have any experience working in a skilled/registered sector would initially be ignorant to staffing challenges faced in those sectors, however plenty of PP'S have hightlighted it!
In the NHS for example, all the applications and infrastructure (the software used to diagnose and treat, often in emergencies) are maintained by highly skilled technical staff. These are complex applications used exclusively by the NHS. Most of these technical specialists work remotely, and only go on site in emergencies. These are staff who also provide 24 hour on call, going on site where necessary.
The NHS is a huge employer, and what people don't realise is that it operates on the goodwill of it's staff! Like it or not, there are a lot of skilled people in the UK workforce who have the luxury of dictating their physical situation. Be careful what you wish for, because these are people who could earn a great deal more in the private sector - push them enough and the NHS might find itself with no choice but to entrust it's emergency services to call centres abroad!

People who say that jobs will be outsourced abroad show huge ignorance to how industries outside of their own operate.

In reply to the two posts above: people outside the NHS and outside their own fields show huge ignorance of how readily jobs / elements of jobs can be outsourced abroad in other industries!

This is part of it. One size does not fit all. It’s a bit like asking whether you can be a good parent while holding down a FT job. Depends on the parent, the child and circumstances.

Examples? We've acknowledged call centres and manufacturing - so beyond those, what are these roles whereupon WFH employees are "writing their own obituaries"?

Imperious much?! Gosh.

Conveyancing. Legal document writing in many and various specialisms. Accounting. Bookkeeping. Aspects of electrical and mechanical engineering. Fintech (almost all non-client-facing). Many middle and back office roles of banking and indeed many financial services. And many more.

Why so defensive? And why so sure you’re so right that anyone else must be wrong? Are you sure that you know everything?

@sheworemellowyellow lots of nhs admin jobs could be done abroad, such as procurement, payroll, HR, medical education and training, recruitment, quality and improvement etc. They aren't currently but with most of those teams being based remotely there's no reason why they couldn't be.

Why so defensive? And why so sure you’re so right that anyone else must be wrong? Are you sure that you know everything?

Simmer down 😬 I only asked a question!