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Original poster

Exam data request from school

50 replies

Siciliansummer · 18/07/2023 15:11

I believe DS is being treated unfairly by school. He is not being allowed to change sets based on exam results, despite suggests being able to do so.

school policy doesn’t explain the process here other than is data based from year end exams. and they have just fobbed me off with others did better

i happen to know others did not do better (DS best friends) and were moved.

can I ask for evidence of this at all? Or any thoughts on how can have independently challenged?

Going into Year 10 so potentially hugely impactful

thanks

OP posts:
Caravanvirgin · 18/07/2023 15:15

Why do you think it will have a huge impact? It’s up to the school how they arrange their classes. What you need to ask the school is how they will ensure your child will reach their potential. Setting will be based on a large number of factors not just one exam result.

TeenDivided · 18/07/2023 15:28

At DDs school sets overlapped. Some pupils do better at the top of a lower set than at the bottom of a higher set.
It only makes a significant difference if he's being restricted to Foundation tier entry for maths, science or MFL.
It probably won't be done just on 1 set of exam results, but will include any other assessments, how they seem to get on in class etc.

LIZS · 18/07/2023 15:32

Interim Exams are not the be all and end all. Different sets may not have covered the same material and be tested to same level. It may be his learning style is better suited to one teacher or cohort.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

General education Secondary education
noblegiraffe · 18/07/2023 15:34

Why do you think you know better than the teachers at school what set he should be in?

JemmiaPuddingHead · 18/07/2023 15:39

This is a whole host of things and not just an exam result. It might be he performs better when he is top of a set than if he were at the bottom of the next set. There is always an overlap. The pace of the lessons also may be a factor in why he is staying where he is.

As said above, unless this is a foundation/higher issue then school probably know a lot more about your son's academic abilities compared to the rest of the cohort than you do.

If you feel he isn't being pushed then let him push himself outside of school. There are plenty of resources online to facilitate good grades.

Original poster
Siciliansummer · 18/07/2023 15:40

Thanks all.

policy says setting entirely based on year end exam data.

just looking for what is fair as a starting point.

OP posts:
thatsn0tmyname · 18/07/2023 15:44

We base our classes on personalities, not data. Maybe the bums on seats combo doesn't work for that set.

TeenDivided · 18/07/2023 15:49

Siciliansummer · 18/07/2023 15:40

Thanks all.

policy says setting entirely based on year end exam data.

just looking for what is fair as a starting point.

I'm surprised a school would tie its hands by writing that as a policy.
And I'm surprised if they really ever follow it rigidly.

Wondering exam data is not the same as % scores.
So maybe they look at some specific questions which are harder / more indicative, rather than straightforward %.

OP - what impact do you think this is really going to have? What subject(s) is it?

Original poster
Siciliansummer · 18/07/2023 15:50

thatsn0tmyname · 18/07/2023 15:44

We base our classes on personalities, not data. Maybe the bums on seats combo doesn't work for that set.

Do you have a policy around setting? Or just that is at your discretion. Thanks.

OP posts:
Original poster
Siciliansummer · 18/07/2023 15:51

TeenDivided · 18/07/2023 15:49

I'm surprised a school would tie its hands by writing that as a policy.
And I'm surprised if they really ever follow it rigidly.

Wondering exam data is not the same as % scores.
So maybe they look at some specific questions which are harder / more indicative, rather than straightforward %.

OP - what impact do you think this is really going to have? What subject(s) is it?

Show quote history

That’s what I’m annoyed at, is because they are very clear on this in policy.

is for STEM block. My concern is that pace of learning will be impacted.

OP posts:
Original poster
Siciliansummer · 18/07/2023 15:52

Does anyone know re: that actual day question? I understand all points of view on sets though.

OP posts:
Spirallingdownwards · 18/07/2023 15:54

My son was in a lower science set than his exams results may have suggested he should be. Others it a lower mark in the set above. The science teacher stated that he wouldn't speak up when he didn't understand something. However there would definitely be kids in that lower set who would speak up and thus DS would benefit from the extra explanation too. They felt he would work better being at the top of the lower set than the bottom of the higher. They did separate science gcses at his school and he got 998 which was higher than many in the higher set.

Trust the school knows what they are doing.

redskytwonight · 18/07/2023 15:56

You would probably do better not to focus on sets but to make sure that your DS is getting appropriate teaching in whatever set he is in.

Unless sets are specifically foundation/higher (which is not a decision I'd expect the school to have made at end of Year 9), as long as his set allows him to do as well as possible, it doesn't actually matter which set he is in. Therefore I'd suggest asking questions such as how the teaching varies between sets and what they do with more able students.

Original poster
Siciliansummer · 18/07/2023 16:16

Thanks all. Yes Year 9 currently and sets are Foundation /higher.

have been trying to raise with HoY but little engagement

OP posts:
Caravanvirgin · 18/07/2023 16:20

Siciliansummer · 18/07/2023 16:16

Thanks all. Yes Year 9 currently and sets are Foundation /higher.

have been trying to raise with HoY but little engagement

You need to discuss it with the head of the subject.

noblegiraffe · 18/07/2023 16:22

The parental complaint policy will be on the school website. If you have discussed with HOD and believe that the school isn't following its own policy then you can escalate to the headteacher.

However, are you absolutely sure it's going to make any difference to his attainment at GCSE? Foundation and Higher overlap at grades 4 and 5 and for some students aiming for a grade 5 they would be better sitting Foundation.

LIZS · 18/07/2023 16:29

If the same set is for all Stem subjects, they may use an average or lowest, for example, as the benchmark.

Ohmylovejune · 18/07/2023 16:34

My son couldn't change Maths set because of his English result! The subjects were back to back on the curriculum scheduling.

So, some of his peers could have moved with not so good Maths results than him, but having stronger English performance.

Madness but that's the way the cookie crumbles

thatsn0tmyname · 18/07/2023 16:38

Siciliansummer, we don't set anymore, except for a small foundation set. Behaviour is much better when we decide who's in the room and not the data.

Curioushorse · 18/07/2023 16:52

Basically you put the child in the set where you think they will get the highest grades. It's as simple as that. There is no benefit or secret agenda at all in wanting to keep children in lower sets.

....of course it's also not simple. As well as test results we also consider potential, social factors, and behaviour. We do separate out key children. I currently have two children in my top sets because their behaviour was so bad in the lower sets they were a nightmare. But there's nobody for them to mess around with in the top set, so they're fine. Of course they don't really understand anything, but I figure they've got themselves into that situation, so they can suck it up (not the official wording). While it may seem they're in an advantageous set, we also feel like we've done the lower sets a favour by isolating them.

We consider gender too- otherwise you can end up with entirely female top sets, snd entirely male bottom sets.

Looked after children and autistic children we often prioritise, by putting them in 'nice sets'. I have a child with fairly bad ADHD in one of my bottom sets. He's brighter than that, but he responds well to individualised tasks- because sometimes I adjust things based on how his medication is working.

Honestly, it's stuff like that. We have 16 sets in each year, by the way, so we're a large school. But it is all considered carefully.

Original poster
Siciliansummer · 18/07/2023 17:11

Curioushorse · 18/07/2023 16:52

Basically you put the child in the set where you think they will get the highest grades. It's as simple as that. There is no benefit or secret agenda at all in wanting to keep children in lower sets.

....of course it's also not simple. As well as test results we also consider potential, social factors, and behaviour. We do separate out key children. I currently have two children in my top sets because their behaviour was so bad in the lower sets they were a nightmare. But there's nobody for them to mess around with in the top set, so they're fine. Of course they don't really understand anything, but I figure they've got themselves into that situation, so they can suck it up (not the official wording). While it may seem they're in an advantageous set, we also feel like we've done the lower sets a favour by isolating them.

We consider gender too- otherwise you can end up with entirely female top sets, snd entirely male bottom sets.

Looked after children and autistic children we often prioritise, by putting them in 'nice sets'. I have a child with fairly bad ADHD in one of my bottom sets. He's brighter than that, but he responds well to individualised tasks- because sometimes I adjust things based on how his medication is working.

Honestly, it's stuff like that. We have 16 sets in each year, by the way, so we're a large school. But it is all considered carefully.

Really interesting. Do you mind if I ask how you reflect such broad consideration in a policy? Thanks

OP posts:
NeverDropYourMooncup · 18/07/2023 17:14

Insisting on him being in what you believe to be a higher set could actually make his life much harder, harm his self esteem/motivation and cause lower results at the end of the courses.

JanetandJohn500 · 18/07/2023 17:24

New guy I dance on maths came out this week from the DfE. It says that children's chances of doing higher/lower paper at GCSE should be decided closer to GCSEs and not based on Yr9 results. Your DCs chances of doing the higher paper should therefore be reassessed closer to when they do their GCSEs

TeenDivided · 18/07/2023 17:40

JanetandJohn500 · 18/07/2023 17:24

New guy I dance on maths came out this week from the DfE. It says that children's chances of doing higher/lower paper at GCSE should be decided closer to GCSEs and not based on Yr9 results. Your DCs chances of doing the higher paper should therefore be reassessed closer to when they do their GCSEs

New guy I dance = new guidance
Took me far too long to decipher that!

DD's school had sets aiming for higher, sets aiming for foundation, but also 'crossover' sets where it would be determined later.

00100001 · 18/07/2023 17:56

Well, his end of year exams might have been higher than the work he was producing in class leading up to that point, so they may have taken that into consideration. So if his classwork and homework were all 6, but he . miraculously smashed out an 8 or something they might wonder what is going on.

Also, if he got an 8 (or equivalent), it might be that loads of others got 9s, and they are in the top sets.

How do you know what set he is in anyway? Why have they told you this already?

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