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Anyone got a Scout or Explorer going to WSJ in South Korea?

630 replies

lazylittlelucy · 16/07/2023 16:57

Just thought I'd start a thread for parents if there are any on here.
My 17yo DD is going as an Explorer and is getting excited now.
Anyone else?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
33
lazylittlelucy · 06/08/2023 10:51

Jesus! A typhoon on or near the site would be very worrying indeed - even a tropical storm.
Think all UK units are in Seoul now. DD's unit luckily have proper beds, 2 to a room.

OP posts:
Willmafrockfit · 06/08/2023 10:55

i am glad the typhoon has been downgraded.

NELEAF · 06/08/2023 11:02

elliemac209 · 06/08/2023 04:45

I've just spoken to DS who is on the bus back to Seoul. He is disappointed but looking forward to a shower. They are lucky enough to be going back to the really nice hotel they were in before so he knows he will get decent food and facilities.

He says his leaders are really positive and will ensure they have a good time in Seoul. Most tellingly though he says he wants to go again as IST in 4yrs and has had a great time.

My personal opinion is that a large part of the decision to move has been based on IST who seem to have been having a terrible experience but have done an amazing job making sure the young people have as smooth an experience as possible. That's not a criticism at all. They deserve safe working conditions and I'm very very grateful to them for everything.

The IST have had truly terrible conditions - a lot of things were not in place until the participants arrived (Food Halls, shade etc) - however I know mine and others still wanted to stay and keep working despite this to keep the Jambo alive but they were told they had to leave with the UK Contingent. I'm pretty sure that in days to come and lot more will be revealed as to the real reasons behind the decisions.

RedToothBrush · 06/08/2023 11:10

The k-pop concert supposed to be onsite will now be on Aug 11 and at the jeonju world cup stadium. The lineup is subject to change so it looks like the big band billed - zb1 may not still appear. They have an award ceremony on the 10th and their fancon is on the 15th.

Bear Grylls on twitter an hour ago
What an incredible force for good the scouts are, especially when times get tough. So proud of all the tens of thousands of worldscouting, scouts
who have battled some tough conditions in Korea at the 25th World Scout Jamboree. The UK, USA, Singapore Scout contingents have chosen to move their location to continue their adventures in Korea. The truth is a Jamboree is wherever Scouts are. It’s a community rather than a set location, and I know they will carry on with their adventures with the selfless determination and resourcefulness that they’ve shown throughout. Keep shining bright and I can’t wait to hear what you get up to! Ps I especially loved meeting these French Scouts, La Cyclodysée who cycled many thousands of miles to be in Korea for the Jamboree. And only 15 punctures on their whole journey between them! True adventure-spirit and endeavour. And finally, huge respect to all the volunteers and International Service Team members who have given so much to support young people. True inspirations.

RedToothBrush · 06/08/2023 12:15

Well the Irish are having a good time:

Irish Embassy Korea AT IrishEmbKorea
Thecontingent at #scoutjamboree having an auld sing-song. Conditions on the site have improved considerably, but we are keeping a close eye on the situation, and regular contact with ScoutingIreland as well as Korean Ministry of Foreign Affairs

BUT this contrasts with what english language Korean Newspapers are reporting today (more posts to follow with links)

RedToothBrush · 06/08/2023 12:17

Some details on how bad conditions still remain. This sounds worse than anything we've heard so far:
https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/2023/08/06/national/socialAffairs/jamboree-World-Scout-Jamboree-Saemangeum/20230806181815666.html

Prompting the withdrawals were health concerns, especially for scouts aged 14 to 17, many of whom had fallen ill from the scorching heat as temperatures hovered close to 40 degrees Celsius (104 degrees Fahrenheit).

At least 2,500 scouts had fallen sick as of Sunday.
The daily sick count is quickly rising, too.

On Wednesday, there were 400 patients, and by Thursday, the official opening day of the Jamboree, that number had doubled to over 900.
On Friday, it spiked even further to over 1,400.

Common ailments include bug bites, skin rashes and heat exhaustion. To make matters worse, a Covid-19 outbreak has been raging at the site since Thursday.

The whole article is worth a read. It talks about how the organisers were in denial and downplayed problems right up until the opening ceremony.

This second article seems to confirm that its not the UK contingent who are being 'soft' - it seems to be a universal feeling amongst adults throughout the nations:
https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2023/08/113_356442.html

But complaints have been coming out since as early as July 27 when adult volunteers from foreign countries started arriving at the vast sunbaked site, a location that has the world's longest man-made dike, measuring 33 kilometers, resulting in a huge land reclamation project that has been years in the making.

"It's just very disappointing how the Korean Scouts worked so hard to portray their organizing of the event as a potential success and hyping it to be a great and innovative Jamboree," one International Service Team (IST) volunteer, traveling with a delegation from a Latin American country, told The Korea Times on Tuesday. "The reality is that it has been a complete mismanagement and safety hazard for young people and the adult volunteers on site already."

On July 31, three of 300 IST adult volunteers collapsed due to the heat, according to a document written by volunteers on site and shared with The Korea Times. "If one percent of the Jamboree collapses every day there will be around 7,700 injuries by the end of the Jamboree just due to heat," the volunteers claimed.

The following day saw more than 400 heat-related illnesses, according to the organizing committee. However, it is difficult to draw conclusions from this data, as the actual number of participants on site on Tuesday remains unknown. While it was widely reported that all 43,000 Scouts visiting the country were present, the actual number was likely much smaller.

As of Tuesday, only four of the total 17 camping zones were fully ready to receive participants, while nine were partially ready and another four were unusable. Major contingents including those from the U.S. and U.K. delayed their arrival in order to provide time for the organizers to prepare the campsites. Many also had to relocate to other camping plots.

Remember at this point that the UK, US, Aus and NZ contingents were delayed onsite - this suggests all the others already onsite were given the available / better pitches to begin with. That 13 of the 17 sites were not ready the day before the opening ceremony is piss poor.

The article goes even further into detail about conditions:

Pallets were distributed for participants to set up their tents on so as to stay out of the water. But even a shortage of tents was reported, and on Monday night some people had to sleep on top of picnic tables, out in the open where bugs could bite them all night.

The flooding also exacerbated other problems, such as moving around on site. Most people resorted to walking on the roads, which were the easiest routes between various sites and were most likely to be dry. "This creates problems between buses, cars, heavy vehicles and golf carts that must navigate around the pedestrians," the volunteers said. "Shuttles do not go to the island with camp HQ on it. This makes it very difficult to get to the Jamboree hospital, which is a safety issue."

AND

Other complaints were also raised, including the lack of barriers separating the camps of Scouts and adult volunteers. "These are very big problems as keeping kids safe from abuse is something all staff members were trained on and the rules are impossible to enforce effectively without separation and identification," the volunteers said in the document.

Another issue at that time was the lack of health support ― both mental and physical.

"I had a heat stroke and a panic attack at the same time and went unconscious," an IST volunteer from a northern nation said. "A day later I started to experience the same thing again only to find that the medical tent was closed."

"I haven't seen so many people crying, emotionally collapsing and having mental health issues so quickly in a camp," the Latin American IST volunteer said on Tuesday. "I'm at a point that I'm considering leaving the Jamboree. Quite a few adult volunteers have done that already."

He added that he had been told to refrain from posting complaints online. "There's a sort of media blackout about the negative aspects of the event," he said. "We have been asked to not post on social media about the flooding and hot weather."

By Wednesday, the situation hadn't improved much.

"Many contingents arrived in the morning and they have to put up their tents in the heat of midday. The U.K. volunteer staff were asked to go and help the young people and some couldn't finish because of the heat," the volunteer said on that day.

The volunteers were carefully watching the weather forecast, which has been showing the possibility of rainfall in the second week. "We had a contingent meeting today to discuss an evacuation plan in case the site floods completely and what support our embassy can do," the IST volunteer said.

Tuesday night was the opening ceremony, which included a visit by President Yoon Suk Yeol. It was reported that between 83 and 108 attendees required medical attention during this event.

"Opening ceremony is something you would think they would put a lot of effort on, but it was yet another disaster to add to the list," the volunteer said. "Throughout the ceremony, the paramedics kept coming in every couple of minutes to pick up people and take them to the ambulances."

"The opening ceremony was a big security catastrophe," said a Scout visiting from Germany, aged 18. "The one road where everyone has to leave was also the road that was used by the emergency vehicles. At the end of the show we got the information from our head of contingent that we shouldn't leave because of how many people had to leave via one small road. We then stayed in the arena for about an hour and when we then left it still was pretty full."

The Latin American volunteer added that a member of the medical team told him later that night that they were at full capacity, and they had not received much of the equipment that had been requested and advertised.

RedToothBrush · 06/08/2023 12:20

Meanwhile more controversy. This time part of the home nation take issue with a Thai leader and the handling of a issue by the organisers:

https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/2023/08/06/national/socialAffairs/Korea-World-Scout-Jamboree-departure/20230806185416314.html

Delegations continued to exit the troubled 25th World Scout Jamboree on Sunday despite the Korean government’s additional promises to ensure the event’s safe continuation, with a group of 80 Korean scouts and their leaders blaming their departure on the organizing committee’s alleged failure to properly address their concerns about a man who entered the women’s shower several days prior.

Their decision to leave came as British, U.S. and Singaporean scout delegations left the Jamboree campsite over the weekend.

The leader of the North Jeolla Province Scout Association, Kim Tae-yeon, announced at a press conference on Sunday that his delegation would withdraw from the event campsite after the Jamboree Committee gave a “simple warning” to a male Thai scout leader who used the women’s shower on early Wednesday morning.

Kim said around 100 people witnessed the incident, but claimed the event’s organizing committee had taken no action, instead attributing the incident to a “misunderstanding.”

In an internal message sent on Thursday by the Safe from Harm team of the World Organization of the Scouting Movement, which was seen by the Korea Joongang Daily, the male individual in question was “alone showering in the female shower area early in the morning” when he was heard by a female scout, who asked him to leave and “called a male colleague to help remove him from the shower.”

The Safe from Harm team said in its internal message that “it conducted an independent investigation and deemed the incident was a misunderstanding,” and that the man was “given a warning and reminded of the Jamboree Code of Conduct.”

Although the team said the man “later issued a written apology to those affected,” the North Jeolla delegation leader said the scouts from North Jeolla “are scared and do not want to remain on the Jamboree campsite.”

He added that police recognized the seriousness of the case and referred it to the North Jeolla Police Agency’s investigation unit that deals with criminal incidents involving with women and youth.

The article also seems to give some details of what the UK scouts are going to get up to as part of their alternative programme:

The Seoul Metropolitan Government, which will play host to the British scout contingent, said Sunday that it plans to offer an array of “cultural experiences and challenges” to Jamboree participants, including four dedicated double-decker tour buses to show British scouts around the city on Sunday night.

To accommodate the scouts’ stay, the city will pull up the opening of the Sejong Summer Festival at Gwanghwamun Plaza to Aug. 10 and allow scouts to enter without reserving tickets so they can attend before their scheduled departure on Aug. 13.

It then goes on to say a bit more about the alternative programme. I believe this is for all nations:

The Busan municipal government and tourism board have also made plans to host up to 10,000 scouts and guide them through the city’s seaside attractions, including Haeundae Beach and Taejongdae Cliff.

Meanwhile, the North Chungcheong provincial government is creating a six-day tourism program for the scouts that would house them in university dormitories, training centers and hotels and show them local sights in Cheongju, Boeun, Chungju and Danyang.

At the request of the Jamboree’s organizing committee, the Jogye Order of Korean Buddhism will open around 170 of its temples nationwide to allow camping or lodging by visiting scouts, who will also be able to undertake temple stay programs.

And a bit more on this:
https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2023/08/120_356452.html
A K-pop concert, originally planned at an outdoor venue there on Sunday, will be staged at Jeonju World Cup Stadium, about a 50-minute drive from the campsite, on Aug. 11 when the closing ceremony will be held. Kim Hyun-sook, minister of gender equality and co-chair of the event's organizing committee, said the decision was made to offer participants "a safer, more pleasant environment."

Local governments in other regions are moving quickly to offer support. Busan Metropolitan City said it was preparing to accommodate 10,000 Scouts until the closing of the Jamboree. Busan, which is bidding to host the World Expo 2030, has already welcomed the Swedish and Mexican Scouting delegations as part of its campaign promotion.

Officials at the Seoul Metropolitan Government are in discussion over whether it is possible to offer some parts of the Han River parks as a campground for Jamboree visitors. To welcome them, officials said they will expand the city's prescheduled entertainment programs such as "NoobCon," a pop concert by the river, and guided mountain-trekking at night.

About 1,000 of the Scouts plan to visit North Chungcheong Province, where they will spend as many as six days traveling around popular tourist spots including Cheongnamdae, once a private vacation villa used by former Korean presidents, and Mount Sobaek, one of the biggest and most popular national parks among mountain lovers.

The Jogye Order, the largest Buddhist sect in the country, is also offering a hand. It will open its 170 temple facilities and other cultural centers nationwide to accommodate the visitors.

Gov't scrambles to keep World Scout Jamboree going

Parents from more than 150 countries who sent their teenage children to Korea for the World Scout Jamboree (WSJ) are now wondering whether they misplaced their trust in the country...

https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2023/08/120_356452.html

RedToothBrush · 06/08/2023 12:20

The salvage operation and the PR / diplomtic mission to save the event continue with details of whats happened to the Rest of The World:
https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/2023/08/05/national/socialAffairs/World-Scout-Jamboree-Saemangeum-North-Jeolla/20230805160104467.html

After the talks, Prime Minister Han Duck-soo announced that scouts from other countries have decided to stay and continue with the Jamboree at Saemangeum in North Jeolla.

The countries that have decided to stay include Argentina, the Philippines, Saudi Arabia, and Belgium. Earlier reports mentioned that Belgium was mulling over the possibility of pulling out, but according to the organizing committee, they have now decided to stay.

Additionally, the following countries have also confirmed that they will remain at the Jamboree until its end on Aug. 12: Sweden, Switzerland, the Netherlands, Denmark, Finland, and Germany.

This seems to suggest that the programme onsite has largely been axed anyway and that there will be a hell of a lot of offsite activities going on (and if that ties with above comment may include overnight trips even for those remaining onsite by the look of it):
According to the president's office on Saturday, President Yoon Suk Yeol, who has been on vacation since Wednesday, instructed Prime Minister Han to request help from other local governments, including Seoul, Busan, and even Pyeongchang in Gangwon, to expand tourism programs for the scouts.

Yoon requested that the program be changed so that the scouts from across the world would be able to see Korea's industry, culture, history, and its nature.

And this seems to suggest the UK are going to be footing the bill for the decision to move offsite:
The organizing committee made it clear that there would be no refund nor any financial aid for scouts who would spend the rest of the Jamboree duration outside of the camping grounds.

"Unless the Jamboree is canceled on a national [crisis] level, such as the spread of Covid-19, there would be no refund, and this decision was accepted by the WOSM," said Choi Chang-haeng, the organizing committee's secretary-general. "However, the Korean government will provide separate conveniences to the organizing committee on a humanitarian level."

Here's some detail on just how much of a mission its become to save face and the event. Multiple companies have got involved:
https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/2023/08/06/business/industry/World-Scout-Jamboree-samsung-electronics-lg/20230806174004993.html

Samsung Electronics is dispatching about 150 new employees participating in the company’s training program to help clean the site, by picking up garbage and recycling.

“The decision has been made for the newly recruited employees to learn Samsung’s vision of ‘together’ before learning about their work,” the company said.

The Korean tech company had already dispatched an 11-member medical team on Saturday from Samsung Medical Center that included five doctors and four nurses.

The tech company is also rolling out a field trip program for the participants.

Participants can visit Samsung Electronics’ chip factory in Pyeongtaek or Hwaseong, as well as Samsung Innovation Museum in Suwon, Gyeonggi where the company is headquartered. The program can accept up to 550 participants a day.

Its construction affiliate, Samsung C&T, has also offered seven portable toilets equipped with air conditioners, five sprinkler trucks and five generators to the event.

LG affiliates including LG Household & Health Care and LG Uplus have also donated 50,000 drinks and 10,000 neck coolers for the participants.

“We are actively looking into ways to help additionally so that global participants to the Jamboree can finish the event safely and in good health,” an LG spokesperson said.

GS Retail, operator of the GS25 convenience store, also said Friday that it will provide 40,000 bottles of water from Friday on a daily basis. Since Sunday, GS Retail has been providing participants with frozen water bottles, utilizing a refrigerator at a nearby branch of the National Federation of Fisheries Cooperatives.

It has also sent 50 employees to the site to make sure that cold water is provided to those in need at the right time.

HD Hyundai, together with three of its shipbuilding affiliates, has dispatched a team of 120 volunteers to help maintain local facilities.

RedToothBrush · 06/08/2023 12:25

And finally the blame game has started. It looks like they are saying it was an event where there was no one in overall control:
https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2023/08/113_356445.html

Despite six years of preparation for the ongoing World Scout Jamboree in Saemangeum, North Jeolla Province, the event has been branded a "disaster" due to its horrific campsite conditions amid an extreme heat wave and poor administrative management. Critics point to the lack of a main control tower as the biggest reason behind the fiasco.

The quadrennial event, held on the site of a huge land reclamation project in Buan, started off with multiple organizers. Three of the five co-chairs on the organizing committee are from the Ministry of Gender Equality and Family, the Ministry of the Interior and Safety and the Ministry of Culture, Sports and Tourism ― a structure that makes it easy for no one to claim primary responsibility for the problems. Already, British, U.S., Singaporean and Korean Scouts have left the campsite due to safety concerns.

Interior and Safety Minister Lee Sang-min, one of the five co-chairs of the organizing committee, said on Friday in Saemangeum that the event had been so far spearheaded by the gender ministry and the North Jeolla provincial government.

The provincial government, however, said the Jamboree's organizing committee hinges on the gender equality ministry alone, and that the provincial government "only supports decisions made by the ministry."

The provincial government is also taking flak as Saemangeum, a land reclamation project on the country's west coast, has failed to prove itself as an "ideal camping ground" as it previously promoted.

AND

The organizing committee had manuals on how to respond to extreme heat and other scenarios but without centralized leadership, the committee lost momentum in carrying out its job, according to the Korea Federation for Environmental Movements in North Jeolla Province. The group said if there had been a control tower among the organizers from the onset of the committee, things would have been "a lot different."

ALL the articles are probably worth reading in full, but hopefully what I've posted here covers the majority of developments.

Everything here does suggest that UK Scouts have made a fully justifible decision based on what was happening on the ground.

The K-Pop concert / closing ceremony looks like it yet may be in the midst of that incoming tropical storm.

PuttingDownRoots · 06/08/2023 12:38

I know its been 3 years... but I wonder how much Covid had a real knock on effect on the planning and infrastructure. Hindsight is brilliant.

The Scouts will still remember this trip forever and many of them likely will have long term friends.

Willmafrockfit · 06/08/2023 12:41

some of them have gone to Busan?
wow

Willmafrockfit · 06/08/2023 12:43

that is an awful lot of scouts to accommodate,

Willmafrockfit · 06/08/2023 12:44

what a story they will have to tell when they come home!

PolkadotsAndMoonbeams · 06/08/2023 12:45

What a shame for them — I've done international camps/forums (although not as big, and no tents involved!) and meeting the participants from other countries is the bit I remember the most. It must be an even bigger thing when you're part of the shared Scouting family all over the world.

The companies getting involved sounds like a bit of an emergency scramble for backup!

RedToothBrush · 06/08/2023 12:50

Summary:

2500 medical incidents as of Sunday out of 43000 participants. Covid outbreak onsite.
No overall leadership - event organised by committee with no one with full responsibility.
Over selling of the site which was unsuitable for camping in August due to being reclaimed / under sea level in monsoon season during a heatwave by the local regional government
Site had a problem with flooding / insects before arrival of the scouts
13 out of the 17 areas incomplete the day before the opening ceremony leading to delays getting onto site
Officials were still saying there was no problem on the Wednesday moning of the opening ceremony (when people were still getting onsite)
Late arrivers then having to put tents up during midday heat
There weren't enough tents available
The site wasn't set up to expected standards with no separation between the adult / child areas as it should have been - safeguarding concerns have been raised in line with world scoutings own rules
Complaints that medical facilities weren't open at all times. Those that were became over whelmed at times. Equipment that should have been onsite for medical purposes wasn't. Emergency medical access to much of the site wasn't possible on the Wednesday due to mud.
The opening ceremony prioritised Officials having their moment. Scouts were expected to stand throughout despite the heat. Officials were prioritised for food - some scouts either didn't get food at all as a result (including some in medical facilities) or got inadequate / inedible / unsuitable rations below their minimum requirements. Insufficient water was given to scouts despite the heat and being told to stay hydrated.
Emergency access during the Opening Ceremony generally wasn't up to scratch (would also explain why the kpop concert onsite got axed and closing ceremony is now in a football stadium - a football match due to be held there has been shifted to accomodate this).
Significant safeguarding issue raised by a Korean regional group - which has lead to them deciding to leave and boycott the rest of the event due to being handled in a way they were unhappy with.
There were insufficient cleaners for the site and the number of participants.
There were insufficient shelters from the heat / sun.
Events couldn't run onsite due to the heat / other safety concerns / site not being ready in time.

The whole thing is being cited as a exercise in how not to run Jamboree which will be the main subject of the scouting world conference next year - and not by UK or US sources.

Worse still the UK contingent look like they will be footing a substantial amount of the cost of this due to the Koreans refusal to STILL take responsibility for the car crash.

Oh AND there is still a tropical storm incoming.

toomuchlaundry · 06/08/2023 12:56

Can see our capitation fees going up then!

That is totally horrific @RedToothBrush I’m feel very sorry for our young scouters but on reading that I am glad they have been moved off site.

RedToothBrush · 06/08/2023 12:58

PuttingDownRoots · 06/08/2023 12:38

I know its been 3 years... but I wonder how much Covid had a real knock on effect on the planning and infrastructure. Hindsight is brilliant.

The Scouts will still remember this trip forever and many of them likely will have long term friends.

None. None whatsoever.

The Koreans had manuals on how to deal with things. But no one in control to facilitate action when problems appeared. There was no practical hands on thinking. It was management by committee from afar.

This alone highlights why this simply wouldn't have happened in the vast majority of places that could have hosted. There is absoluetely no way that there wouldn't have been a 'head of jamboree 2023' in the UK. It just wouldn't have happened.

Thats fuck all to do with covid. Thats a cultural issue of bureaucracy which is the complete antithesis of the practical 'get stuff done' ethos of scouting.

World Scouting actually have a lot to answer for, in light of this. With no individual in charge there can't possibly have been any oversight. It was a disaster waiting to happen because there was no one able to quickly respond to issues becoming apparent in the days and weeks before the event started. There couldn't be dynamic risk assessments and resolutions of problems as they emerged. It was just everyone able to abdicate responsibility until the shit hit the fan.

I'd be beyond furious if I was in UK Scouting HQ.

MrsWombat · 06/08/2023 13:04

I heard from a parent of a young IST adult that now they are in Seoul they will have to pay for food and transport (I'm assuming to get food/do their own touring) out of their own pocket, and they will be reimbursed.

That's a lot of money for young adults to fork out when bed and board was included in the thousands of pounds they'd already paid out of their own pocket/fundraising. 😳

missingthewinchesterboys · 06/08/2023 13:22

@swanling
I've not done any 'handwringing' about them being in hotels at all- you've missed my point. They kids are no longer at a jamboree, they are at best on a cultural exchange. It isn't what they went for.
The SA absolutely made the right decision but both parents and kids are allowed to be sad and disappointed.

The reality is that they are very limited in their ability to enjoy Seoul. The budget is not there, they had money for Seoul pre the jamboree - no idea who is paying for what now as we've had no communication from The SA on this.
The press are following them, camping outside hotels etc. making exploration stressful and difficult.
Many of my daughters unit are suffering medical issues and after effects from the camp. Severe swelling of limbs due to reactions from sand flea bites etc. the clinic onsite kept shutting due to volumes and the British FO sent in their own DRs.

Reading the Korea papers it seems that emergency talks were held with 23 foreign embassies prior to the Jamboree starting because so many contingents were asking for help from their embassies. Their press are being much more open about the failings. It really isn't about the heat.

The British press have done their usual job of catastrophosising and then acting like everyone has overreacted.
The headlines of 'teens think they are going to die' very quickly turn to 'The SA pulls out just as things improve' etc.

We were told there would be state of the art medical facilities, that mosquito nets were not required, the SA refused to make any recommendations on vaccinations which was very confusing. Our pharmacy wouldn't do a HepA vaccine because it wasn't needed for the region. Given the lack of sanitation that was a mistake I hope we don't live to regret.

Looking to the future for The SA I hope that unity will pay out or the SA will be in more financial difficulties than it already is. They've sold off most of their campsites already.

RedToothBrush · 06/08/2023 13:23

MrsWombat · 06/08/2023 13:04

I heard from a parent of a young IST adult that now they are in Seoul they will have to pay for food and transport (I'm assuming to get food/do their own touring) out of their own pocket, and they will be reimbursed.

That's a lot of money for young adults to fork out when bed and board was included in the thousands of pounds they'd already paid out of their own pocket/fundraising. 😳

What guarantees do the UK contingent have that they will be fully reimbursed? Do they have a daily budget? If they don't I'd be worried because there would be nothing to stop them spending - and then being caught out by being told they'd spent too much and they'd only be covered to the tune of a certain amount.

I think anyone being asked to use their own money is vulnerable to changing goalposts and being caught out / let down.

I fear the repercussions of this will haunt UK scouting for years in multiple ways including for those who didn't go.

missingthewinchesterboys · 06/08/2023 13:33

For me personally I'm feeling the lack of concern from my own group and district quite upsetting. District & county have not contacted anyone at all.
I've given years to the group and not even had one text from one other leader. I thought these people were my friends.
Two of my Explorer parents have checked in on how DD is doing but nothing else at all.

It's making me question staying on actually.

RedToothBrush · 06/08/2023 13:54

missingthewinchesterboys · 06/08/2023 13:33

For me personally I'm feeling the lack of concern from my own group and district quite upsetting. District & county have not contacted anyone at all.
I've given years to the group and not even had one text from one other leader. I thought these people were my friends.
Two of my Explorer parents have checked in on how DD is doing but nothing else at all.

It's making me question staying on actually.

I get the impression they've all been kept in the dark.

We know district leaders who have kids over there. They don't know what's going on.

All the chats DH is in are silent about it because everyone knows that they have kids there and they don't want to worry them / look like they are rubbing nose in / looking for gossip. Tbh what DO you say? There's nothing anyone here can actually do - in effect all anyone can do there is fight fire the situation and keep the kids as busy as possible until their flights home. There's too many kids to bring them home early anyway.

Our friends kids are mates with the kids we know there and have messaged them directly asking if they are ok, but they didn't know much (friends kids are now away themselves so not heard anything further from them).

I think even the leaders in South Korea don't really know much about what's happening - they are busy managing things on the ground anyway - telling people back here what's going on isn't the priority.

It looks like it's the embassies and the government and the scouting heads all desparately on a ring round of things they can do for a week for 43000 people at short notice. So it's pretty much being organised on the fly, actioned as best it can and then information seeps back to the UK - but because there's so many units even UK scouting can't keep up to date with informing parents (remember they are busy with the actual crisis part of this). It sounds like various UK groups are in different places with different units so there's no longer one UK contingent.

That's a total farce in its own right. And not UK scoutings fault.

RedToothBrush · 06/08/2023 14:08

Have to say it does look like our local contingent did have a good time onsite and were one of the last off. But even then, I still think it's the right call given everything.

You don't want to be onsite in two days time facing flooding. And that is a realistic prospect. It's not just the physical camping side of that either - it's the logistics of getting food and water onsite and retaining good emergency medical access. If there is heavy rain, I don't think this is a given.

If you have 4500 people to consider and you can't guarantee there isn't going to be a major issue in a couple of days, you don't have a choice but to pull the plug.

toomuchlaundry · 06/08/2023 14:11

@RedToothBrush with what has been said about the organisation of the camp so far you wouldn't want risk those organisers being in charge of an emergency situation if the storm hits it hard. I don't think UK scouts had a choice but to pull out.

swanling · 06/08/2023 14:25

@missingthewinchesterboys
You wrote:
"The SA absolutely made the right decision but both parents and kids are allowed to be sad and disappointed."

Which is exactly what I said and reiterated more than once in my post. So how was I missing the point?

I literally wrote in my first sentence:

"Of course and that's really disappointing."

Then I reiterated it again:

"It's disappointing"

And offered hope of positive outcomes and experiences to come, in recognition of the desire for that international scouting experience which I understand.