Protecting kids from dogs

[Yeen]

We live very close to some lovely woods where I take my DC walking most days. Lots of dog walkers as you'd expect, most dogs on lead and perfectly friendly (I haven't got a problem with dogs). However recently there's been a huge increase in very large pit bull type breeds (I think they're American Bully XL dogs), and they never seem to be on leads - owners often miles away. I find these types of dogs really intimidating and most of the recent dog attacks in the news seem to involve them. I have no idea how I would even go about attempting to protect my DC if one attacked. If one is nearby I make sure DC aren't running around and are standing with me. Are there any other practical steps I could take?! I am usually carrying a hot drink of some sort, is that going to be of any practical use against a dog if it attacks??

Plenty! Mastiffs, great Danes, leonbergers...

Thanks, thats really helped my anxiety 🤣

Anyway, just been for a walk and didn't see a single dog full stop, so maybe we will just go at this time of day in future.

Is pepper spray legal to buy? Would that slow a dog like this down? If not then some kind of chilli sauce?

I worry about this too and ponder what I would do if this happens. If it is trying to attack I would be kicking it and trying to get on top of it to restrain it. I would rather die that let it get to my children.

These dogs should have to wear muzzles when out. Until they are banned that is

I muzzle her when we are out so if a dog did run up she wouldn't snap at it. This is at a significant detriment to her as it means she can't defend herself if she got attacked. So I wouldn't say that's particularly naive or entitled? It would be more entitled if I let her off the lead to do whatever the fuck she wanted, which is what some dog owners do.

Well... if she was off the lead she wouldn't be reactive, so that would be an improvement...

This. It’s shocking and why are people asking OP to stay away from the areas where dogs are when it’s clear they are everywhere in her neighbourhood not just the woods? Things have gotten out of hand that humans are avoiding outdoor spaces for the sake of dogs.

I have 3 parks very close to me and I’ve never been to any of them despite living in this area for over a year because I want to avoid these kind of problems.

Okay I'll just let my lurcher off in a rural area so she can chase livestock and be shot 🤣 I'm bowing out now because I'm clearly not conversing with a reasonable person 🤣

Had you mentioned she was a lurcher?

... bred to chase and kill small furries across wide grass areas like parks... 😂
(since bull breeds get a lot of stick for their "purpose")

I personally think dogs over a certain size and weight should only be walked on your own private land, regardless of breed.

Maybe if all citizens were issued with some sort of Kevlar type suit that was bite resistant?

It's not just children-I walk my small, under control dog every day and I worry about her safety around larger dogs.

The local vet has said there are dog on dog attacks almost daily due to a whole cohort of lockdown dogs who have not been socialised and trained enough (not always through any fault but lockdown restrictions) and now the owners are not still at home all day. Very sad situation for all.

One thing I will say-and this was re a dog such as the breeds discussed above-if they are aggressive and going for a child/dog then often hitting them only makes them more aggressive.
Even if ddog is at my heel it doesn't prevent a large dog going for her.

I walk familiar places where I know a lot of other dog walkers and to be fair if there are children running around with sticks etc-which they have every right to do-I do put her on the lead immediately.

Whilst I appreciate concerns around dogs and children please remember not all dog and dog owners are the same.
The goal is to keep everyone safe and happy!

I appreciate not all dog owners are the same, but unfortunately some of these breeds are lethal weapons in the wrong hands. It is going to be a necessary evil to penalise responsible dog owners to keep a lid on irresponsible ones.

It is like gun ownership, really.

@Embelline oh I 100% agree with you. But all of the other things that I had suggested to the OP, they have said they can't do, so...

You say that like I was being awkward- how is it a realistic suggestion for me to not take my kids anywhere I might encounter these dogs, when I could encounter them in any public outdoor space?!?!

Frequency
thank you, yes despite breed specific legislation there seems to be more dog attacks. I wonder though which breed (or not a breed at all) is responsible for the majority of these fatal attacks? and does breed specific legislation cover this breed (non breed, otherwise known as Xl bully). It doesn't. And yet, if it was found that the majority of fatal or serious incidents were Xls could they not be included?

I know there are problems with establishing exactly what they are, and they are not a recognised breed, neither is it easy now to establish what mix of breeds they actually are. Added to which most people can not point at one and say "ah ha, that's an xl bully, because I've eliminated the chances of it being any other recognised breed, AND it isn't a cross breed of some other bull type. The breeders were very well aware at the start of their project several years ago that they needed to avoid falling foul of BSL and wanted to breed a huge powerful pit bull type dog. Since then they have continued to breed in other yet more powerful dogs to create super heavy dogs with guarding instinct, which seems like a dangerous combination to me.

Does anyone know why the kennel club and the American equivalent don't recognise XL bully? Maybe they should, and then there has to be some sort of breed standard??? perhaps then BSL might work?

I love dogs. It is though unacceptable that these dogs prevent people from feeling/being safe in public spaces.

However, my other main concern is that well established breeds that pose little risk are being confused now with XL bully, again because we are not able to identify exactly what we are looking at (as others have also pointed out). Again, this serves no one well except the irresponsible breeders of these dangerous XLs.

My reply was to somebody posting in reply to me on page 2. I agre with them that kids should be able to be kids.

I'm not sure what you want from me, OP. I didn't mean to make you sound awkward, but i guess i am frustrated and that may well be coming across in my tone. It wasn't clear in your OP that your meet these dogs everywhere you go. It seemed like you were only talking about the woods by your house. I've made my best recommendations based on what I would do, several of them, and you've replied with a reason why you can't do any of them apart from what you are already doing. There's nothing else i can offer to you apart from the advice i gave you that triggered the reply from the other person I was replying to. I agree with them that these dogs 100% should be banned, and they shouldn't be walked in public off the lead. But I don't have the power to ban them, or to make sure that they are only walked on lead by competent handlers.

You've had some spectacularly terrible advice on this thread. Stuff that is far more likely to get you into trouble than out of it. I really hope that you are able to sort the wheat from the chaff.

I haven't made any kind of reply to your other suggestions so I'm not sure how you've got that tbh. Maybe you are mistaking me for someone else.

Honestly? A gun, good aim, and a cool head. Which isn’t advice you can follow in the UK, obviously.

Staring at a dog and growling is essentially inviting it to fuck you up. So don’t do that one. Throwing hot coffee or stabbing with a pen is, unless you’re exceptionally lucky and hit a sweet spot on the moving target (unlikely), only going to enrage a dog, already pumped up with adrenaline, further. Pepper spray, if the wind is against you, can end up back in your own face, so you can easily end up incapacitating yourself in the midst of an attack. Even if the wind isn’t against you, you’ve got to make sure it hits the aforementioned moving target.

So that leaves avoidance, or running the risk (which is small).

Hammer seemed to work here, though not before it sent the elderly woman to hospital with critical injuries. Hammer plus two adult males trying to fend it off.
As a single woman, I don't fancy my chances much.

https://www.itv.com/news/central/2023-07-12/three-people-injured-after-dog-attack

Being afraid of dogs out and about seems a bit hysterical, although most of the dogs I encounter on walks tend to be gun or working breeds. There is quite a lot of snobbery about the types of areas that bull breeds populate. I would be interested to know the national statistics of dog attacks, as in the relationship of the victim to the dog or dog owner. I'm willing to bet most attacks happen when in the dog's territory, rather than a random dog runs up to a random person in the street and attacks them. A dog with a fighting temperament is much more likely to go for another dog when out walking, the human gets attacked when they understandably put themselves between the owner and the dog. As a snapshot I saw 4 dogs who were biters last year, 3 bit their owners and 1 bit the owner's grandchild. I saw 2 dogs killed in the same time, one was killed by his sibling and the other attacked by a random loose dog in the street.
Just tell your children not to approach or interact with strange dogs.

You could get a dog horn/there are small enough to carry with you devices that make loud noises. I am considering it in the event another dog ever attacks mine as a quick way to scare them off.

The fact that you are not walking your own dog is a good thing, as bully breeds are more to prone to dog aggression than aggression against humans (if we're just talking about random attacks on the street).

Walking past with calm, neutral, disengaged body language is the best thing you can do. Keeping your children close to prevent sudden movements such as trips or falls is a good idea. Do not anything mad like trying to stare the dog down as some people on this thread have suggested. Just ignore, ignore, ignore, even if it comes closer to you.

If I saw one off leads my kids would be hoiked up on to my shoulders until clear of them. They can do terrible damage and there's no many idiot owners about m

If an attack happened the only chance I think would be getting it by the back legs as a previous poster said and them promptly sitting on its head and shoulders until help arrived whilst telling you kids to move away 20m in case it got away from you

Screaming definitely makes things worse

I apologize, I'm also terrified of these animals. I'm always scanning for them and if I see one I get as far away from it as I can. I'm so sorry for those who are living near to them.

could you really restrain an animal that size though, weighs as much as 50kg and all muscle?
It would be fighting like mad and it has teeth & very powerful jaws.
Those poles with collars on that the police use would prob be best?