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Why are bloody teachers striking AGAIN?

632 replies

noblegiraffe · 05/07/2023 09:18

Because, dear hearts, the government, when they offered us a pay rise of 4.5%, mostly unfunded for next September and all 4 teaching unions thoroughly rejected it, Gillian Keegan said that teachers would then have to take their chances with the independent pay review body and that there would be no further negotiations.

So teachers did. And the independent pay review body, who seem to have rather more of a handle on the current crisis in teaching than the government, recommended that teachers should get a 6.5% pay rise to introduce some stability into the system.

We only know this because the independent pay review body findings have not been published, but this figure was leaked.

Calls for the government to publish the report have been ignored. Most recently, a freedom of information act request to the DfE for the report was rejected, because the DfE says it's "not in the public interest".

Why is it not in the public interest to know what the independent pay review body has recommended? This report is published every year.

In the meantime, Rishi is briefing the press that he will reject the independent pay review body's recommendations, after making a huge fuss about how he always accepts independent pay review body recommendations.

Why should this matter to parents? Because headteachers are currently trying to write their budgets for September. The end of term is approaching. This job is currently impossible because headteachers don't know how much more they are expected to pay teachers next year, (6.5%? 5?% 4.5%?) and they have no idea how much extra money their school will be given to account for the pay rise (all? some? None??). This makes a massive difference as staffing costs account for the vast majority of school budgets. Should they be planning to cut GCSE subjects? Make staff redundant? Or will they actually be able to plan in some literacy support? That they don't know is intolerable.

A senior government advisor said that school budgets last year weren't worth the paper they were written on because of this same issue, and that it shouldn't be allowed to happen again.

Yet here we are.

The government are trying to drag this out to the summer before they make their pay announcement because then they'll be on their holidays and the 4 teaching unions' ballots will have closed.

OP posts:
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Forestfriendlygarden · 07/07/2023 13:21

OrTheBearsWillGetYou · 07/07/2023 13:09

Of course it’s not a comment of yours. It’s Niemoller’s. It’s very famous. It’s inscribed at many Holocaust remembrance sites, including Yad Vashem.

Given the history and purpose, it’s crass to quote Niemoller in respect of teachers in the UK striking for more money.

Yes I know it's famous. My opinion stands and I beg to differ from yours. And I clearly labelled it as Niemolloer's words.

Thank goodness we still live in a semblance of a democracy, so I am allowed to express a different opinion!

The rights to belong to a trade union and to act - as part of that union have been eroded for a long time in Britain as you will be aware. Trade unionists are mentioned in the words as I pointed out.

Union rights and for that matter the right of assembly being eroded and unjustly criticised is a very dangerous sign for a country which calls itself a 'democracy'.

And as so many have already said, quite clearly, teachers are not merely striking for more money, they are striking for better conditions and striking ultimately for a sustainable and just education system which is an integral part of freedom of speech.

So they are not just doing it for themselves the are doing it for our children's future too.

OrTheBearsWillGetYou · 07/07/2023 13:25

🤦‍♀️

Sherrystrull · 07/07/2023 13:36

I honestly can't believe there's still some dense people who think teachers are simply striking for pay.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Forestfriendlygarden · 07/07/2023 13:41

Following by NEU rep Lucy Coleman summarises the situation very well I find:

Tories hell-bent on degrading education | Morning Star (morningstaronline.co.uk)

Forestfriendlygarden · 07/07/2023 13:43

Lucy's words

:It’s laughable that last year the DfE refused to entertain the idea of awarding a pay rise that went beyond the STRB recommendations and yet this year after the figure of a 6.5 per cent raise for teachers was leaked, Rishi Sunak has hinted that they can ignore this year’s STRB report.

This is typical of a Conservative government that thinks it can heed recommendations only when it suits them.

So yes, there is much anger within the profession, but also much disappointment that the government can continue to undermine an entire profession showing how little they value the future of students and this country’s education system.
This goes beyond fighting for a decent pay rise for educators; one of the key demands from educators who are taking strike action is the lack of funding for the paltry pay rises offered so far.

Since the Conservatives have been in power, school funding has fallen and budgets have been pushed to breaking point. The NEU has been campaigning for increased funding, but year after year the funding for schools and colleges falls way short.

Class sizes continue to increase, the number of qualified teachers and support staff in classes continues to fall and those who remain in the classroom are expected to provide a quality education on a shoestring.

And it’s not just classroom budgets which are stretched, provision for pupils with Special Educational Needs and Disabilities (SEND), Early Years, Alternative Provision and Post-16 education are all at breaking point. In addition, mental health services across the country have been so severely underfunded that there is now a mental health crisis in education and a severe lack of resources within schools to meet the needs of pupils.

That’s why NEU members are taking strike action this week and it is also why all four teacher unions and support staff unions are currently balloting their members for further strike action in the autumn term. Anger among educators is palpable.

If the government continues to refuse to negotiate on pay and funding, then there will be no choice but for escalation and further disruption to schools and pupils.

Keegan can so easily settle this dispute, as educators we are not asking for a lot. Fund our education system properly and pay educators fairly, so that we can give pupils the education that they rightly deserve.

LUCY COLEMAN NEU REP in the MORNING STAR

UsingChangeofName · 07/07/2023 13:54

Thanks, as every for updating us @noblegiraffe

OrTheBearsWillGetYou · 07/07/2023 13:55

Sherrystrull · 07/07/2023 13:36

I honestly can't believe there's still some dense people who think teachers are simply striking for pay.

If that’s aimed at me, I know perfectly well what’s being argued here. I doubt some of the sincerity of the protestations of wider social concern, but whatever.

Even if teachers want to strike only through a desire to improve education (unlikely, since the basis of the strike is a wage demand: read the opening post), it’s still stupid and unpleasant to post material written about and associated with the Holocaust to justify a teachers’ strike.

Reality25 · 07/07/2023 13:59

When striking has no consequence apart from losing that day's wages, it's no surprise that striking is commonplace. Little downside risk, lots of upside potential.

If strikers were at risk of losing their jobs for gross misconduct as they should be, you can bet only a tiny fraction of people would strike, if any. Any false sense of being worth more than they are would vanish once faced with reality again.

If stealing from your employer did not have consequences because you felt you deserved more than you're paid, guess what would happen? Stealing from your employer would also become commonplace.

Extortion and theft are two sides of the same coin. It's time the law is reversed back to reflect that again.

Sherrystrull · 07/07/2023 14:03

@OrTheBearsWillGetYou

I didn't say teachers were striking 'simply' for conditions. I just said they were striking 'simply' for pay.

Needingacoffee · 07/07/2023 14:04

I am so glad that my youngest teen is doing his GCSEs next year. I don't find it fair that only Year 10 are the only year in his school today, just because they have exams next year... He's not even having his timetabled lessons, and just doing English, Maths, and a Science exam. A Science exam for Higher Science, which most pupils failed miserably on. Probaby down to the fact of not having a proper Physics teacher, but a PE teacher teaching the subject. The sooner he's out of education, the better. He's very academic, but he's well and truly put off of staying on to 6th Form, and then going to uni. He's probably now going to do an apprenticeship instead. He could easily be a teacher, but all these strikes won't make him even consider it as an option.
As for the future, I am seriously concerned what will even be left of school education when mine have children, if they have any.

Sherrystrull · 07/07/2023 14:06

@OrTheBearsWillGetYou

I agree about the holocaust reference but I'm not sure why you referred to it when replying to me.

Sherrystrull · 07/07/2023 14:07

Sherrystrull · 07/07/2023 14:03

@OrTheBearsWillGetYou

I didn't say teachers were striking 'simply' for conditions. I just said they were striking 'simply' for pay.

Weren't striking for 'simply' for pay!!!

Needingacoffee · 07/07/2023 14:08

Also, I am so glad my eldest has been out of school 2 years now. He has SEN, and all these strikes would have been a complete nightmare for him. He's clever enough to probably teach too in a way, but he's happy doing ICT at college.

OrTheBearsWillGetYou · 07/07/2023 14:13

Sherrystrull · 07/07/2023 14:06

@OrTheBearsWillGetYou

I agree about the holocaust reference but I'm not sure why you referred to it when replying to me.

Because I thought you were referring to my comment more or less immediately prior to yours, and which included reference to striking for a pay increase in the context of my disgust at use of the Niemoller quote.

If not and I’ve jumped to the wrong conclusion, my apologies.

Forestfriendlygarden · 07/07/2023 14:14

Sherrystrull · 07/07/2023 14:06

@OrTheBearsWillGetYou

I agree about the holocaust reference but I'm not sure why you referred to it when replying to me.

Just to be clear and clarify.
I was NOT referring to the holocaust. Kindly refrain from putting words in my mouth thanks.

I quoted Niemoeller on a particular kind of dynamic in society - and in the text trade unionistsj are mentioned. In his text. As I've already said. 😀

Forestfriendlygarden · 07/07/2023 14:15

And as I said, we are actually all still permitted to hold differing opinions.

Forestfriendlygarden · 07/07/2023 14:18

Needingacoffee · 07/07/2023 14:04

I am so glad that my youngest teen is doing his GCSEs next year. I don't find it fair that only Year 10 are the only year in his school today, just because they have exams next year... He's not even having his timetabled lessons, and just doing English, Maths, and a Science exam. A Science exam for Higher Science, which most pupils failed miserably on. Probaby down to the fact of not having a proper Physics teacher, but a PE teacher teaching the subject. The sooner he's out of education, the better. He's very academic, but he's well and truly put off of staying on to 6th Form, and then going to uni. He's probably now going to do an apprenticeship instead. He could easily be a teacher, but all these strikes won't make him even consider it as an option.
As for the future, I am seriously concerned what will even be left of school education when mine have children, if they have any.

Apprenticeships can be fantastic. Most of them though, as far as I am aware still include an element of teaching and therefore are impacted by teaching conditions, one day a week day release and so on.

Who knows though, let's be optimistic - perhaps and I hope teachers will win this fight, which will result in better conditions for students too!

Sherrystrull · 07/07/2023 14:21

@Forestfriendlygarden

I did not put words into your mouth. You are responsible for what you said.

My opinion is that it was an ill-advised reference and has derailed from any relevant point you have to make.

OrTheBearsWillGetYou · 07/07/2023 14:23

Forestfriendlygarden · 07/07/2023 14:15

And as I said, we are actually all still permitted to hold differing opinions.

Indeed you did. Though why that justifies using Niemoller in support of striking teachers is not obvious.

And in that post you also twice referred to ‘democracy’.

Before quoting with approval a piece in the Morning Star.

Joined-up argument of the finest kind. Top work!

Needingacoffee · 07/07/2023 14:24

He now wants to be a carpenter, if not an engineer. My brother, brother in law, and nephew are carpenters by trade.
Teaching would be at a college, not school. Hopefully, the college he chooses won't have tutors striking.
Everyone deserves better.

Forestfriendlygarden · 07/07/2023 14:24

Sherrystrull · 07/07/2023 14:21

@Forestfriendlygarden

I did not put words into your mouth. You are responsible for what you said.

My opinion is that it was an ill-advised reference and has derailed from any relevant point you have to make.

Yes. Your opinion. Different from mine. That's okay! It is a discussion forum. Don't misquote me though thanks!

May I gently suggest you are not really in a position to listen to an opion other than your own anyway...

Sherrystrull · 07/07/2023 14:30

I haven't quoted you at all but if you think your comment wouldn't make people think of the holocaust and be offended then you clearly are seriously deluded.

It is a topic very close to my heart and my opinion is that people shouldn't throw random quotes referring to it into unrelated topics willy nilly then act annoyed when people call you out.

I've got no idea what you're on about taking about my opinion to be honest.

Forestfriendlygarden · 07/07/2023 14:30

OrTheBearsWillGetYou · 07/07/2023 14:23

Indeed you did. Though why that justifies using Niemoller in support of striking teachers is not obvious.

And in that post you also twice referred to ‘democracy’.

Before quoting with approval a piece in the Morning Star.

Joined-up argument of the finest kind. Top work!

No law in quoting union members who have given interviews to legitmate media outlets. Or have I missed something?

No law against mentioning 'democracy' or any definition of it.

No law against holding a different opinion as the saying goes

'I disapprove of what you are saying Sir/Madam but would defend to the death your right to say it'

Strikes of any kind create discussion in society. May I suggest that is a very good thing. Media outlets being the third pillar of democracy and all that...

Feenie · 07/07/2023 14:32

Needingacoffee · 07/07/2023 14:24

He now wants to be a carpenter, if not an engineer. My brother, brother in law, and nephew are carpenters by trade.
Teaching would be at a college, not school. Hopefully, the college he chooses won't have tutors striking.
Everyone deserves better.

No chance there, I’m afraid - FE is in a worse state than the rest of the sectors put together. The chronic underfunding for years has all but decimated FE.

So UCU and ASCL are both balloting for industrial action in the autumn term.

Forestfriendlygarden · 07/07/2023 14:32

Sherrystrull · 07/07/2023 14:30

I haven't quoted you at all but if you think your comment wouldn't make people think of the holocaust and be offended then you clearly are seriously deluded.

It is a topic very close to my heart and my opinion is that people shouldn't throw random quotes referring to it into unrelated topics willy nilly then act annoyed when people call you out.

I've got no idea what you're on about taking about my opinion to be honest.

It's close to my heart too.

As I said, beg to differ.

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