What to do about ongoing problems with groups of Duke Of Edinburgh students?

[GunkyAndGungey]

We live on a large farm, and a well known footpath crosses past the end of our garden and then through two of our fields. Its a popular route with DofE expedition groups and a lot of them pass through. I've lived here nearly 10 years and whilst occasionally they get lost and end up in the garden (which is fine, we just show them the right path) and sometimes they're quite noisy as they pass (which I don't mind, it's quite nice to hear teenagers enjoying being outside tbh) we've never been bothered by them. Until this summer...

I don't know why, but this summer they all seem to be complete fools. In the last month alone:

• we have found one group climbing on farm machinery whilst taking photos of each other

• we have found two groups that have wandered off the path, through a closed gate, and into one of our fields, where they've gone into the little living willow shelter we have built with table/chairs/firepit and settled down for a picnic (leaving food strewn around and litter behind).

• my dad caught another group poking round inside a derelict and dangerous barn (again for photo opportunities 🙄)

• we have spotted several chucking litter over the hedge into our garden - each and every time we have caught them we have made them pick it up but obviously we don't catch them all and there is definitely much more litter than in previous years

• and to top it all, today I found yet another group off the path messing around trying to open the manhole cover that forms the lid to an old (unused) cess pit. This is not only off the path but it's invisible from the path, you can only see it once you are about 100 yards along our drive (which is very clearly marked PRIVATE) and they had to climb over barbed wire to get to it. Their excuse was that they "thought it was an old bomb shelter and they learned about them last week".

We always ask what school they're from and about half the time they do tell us, in which case we complain to the school. But I feel like we should start complaining to the DofE scheme itself now? Because clearly the students aren't being taught the basics before they're let loose in the countryside! Would there be any point though?

*Just to make clear these are all definitely DofE groups - we have also noticed an overall uptick in other walkers doing stupid shit (trying to put up a tent in a cow field without permission or letting their children into our garden to use the garden toys like it's a park, anyone?), but there's nobody to complain to about them!!

Certainly complain to the D of E people. They need to know. If you note the date and time they might well know which school so they can contact them.

I would write to the D of E people definitely.

We've moved back to the city now but we also had a footpath across our property. We had people feeding the dog, leaving dogshit and litter everywhere. We actually put up a little box with poo bags and managed to get the council to put a bin on the council land just before the footpath and it made not a blind bit of difference. We also used to find people picnicking in the garden fgs.

I don't think people are taught about countryside rules any more but you would definitely expect D of E students to know! It's so dangerous on a working farm that kids behave like that. I would actually be tempted to put up a sign saying that they must stick to the footpath as it's a working farm and you can't be responsible for anyone who climbs on the machinery. It might be worth asking the farmers Union what you can legally say on the sign. Last thing you want is one of the kids hurting themselves and you get sued!

Oh speaking to the NFU is a good shout, I should have thought of that! Thanks.

And yes, I think I will start emailing the complaints to the actual D of E scheme itself not just the schools. Its just shocking how poor the behaviour and general levels of common sense are this year.

It sounds like their training is definitely amiss this year. Maybe a key member of staff has left? Are those you ask who answer usually from the same schools? We’re in Scotland where there are far more routes and fewer people so I think here it would be quite easy to identify the school and have dofe speak to them.

We identified three different schools, and have complained to all three. Two were very local (within 10 miles, which is local for round here!) and the other was about 40 miles away.

There may be a centre/campsite nearby where they come from such as a scout activity centre. They will certainly be camping somewhere within a 5-mile radius so it may be worth asking where they are staying as well as the name of the school and getting in contact with the site too. If a school gets enough complaints they might get banned from the centre?

Each time you have a problem ask them the name of the school/DofE provider. Then email DofE and tell them that the school/provider is sending DC out without giving them the basic training they need eg countryside code/keeping themselves safe and that you are concerned a) it is an accident waiting to happen which won't look good on Dof E generally and b) if they are cutting corners on this what else are they not doing properly. D of E do take lack of safety training pretty seriously.

IMO teenagers are so much more immature than usual (on average) since the pandemic, this doesn’t surprise me in the slightest. I feel your pain and hope it improves.

Complain, this is totally not ok and one of them is going to have an accident.

This - opening a disused cesspit and climbing on farm machinery makes my blood run cold honestly, somebody is going to end up dying.

Often the DofE is run by external providers rather than the schools themselves these days so perhaps messages to the schools/organisers aren't quite getting to the desired destination.

I’m going to suggest a different viewpoint here as I teach in a school and I’m from a farming background. The numbers of kids doing D of E are dwindling (budget cutbacks, staff redundancies) etc. I used to take Sixth Formers for a walk (related to their studies) in Autumn and last year, out of a group of 35, none of them had ever picked blackberries from a hedge.

We desperately need more young people to be engaged in the countryside and in farming for the future of our nation. If I were in your position, I would find out which schools they were from and offer to come into local schools to deliver sessions about the countryside code, and why you shouldn’t play on farm machinery etc.

I totally understand how annoying it must be to have groups of pupils vandalising your property, but I think there’s a great opportunity here for you to change mindsets.

I wonder if this scheme has got out of hand - it used to be a minority of interested kids now it’s basically universal- very much pushed at school and facilitated by private money making companies.

Teacher here - we’re noticing similar behaviour at school to be honest.

The damage from Covid hasn’t just been to academics; socialisation, respect for others and common sense have taken a massive hit too.

Might a ‘dangerous bull roaming free’ message help? My students would be unlikely to twig that one wouldn’t keep an animal like that in the garden!

Sounds like you need Countryside Code signboards (although if they're ignoring Private signs they might not be effective). Big Beware of the Bull signs might keep people out of fields? It seems ridiculous that groups are being sent out for DofE without basic instruction - farms and the countryside are not a free-for-all and people should behave as they would want guests in their own home to behave. Good luck with getting this sorted.

If I were in your position, I would find out which schools they were from and offer to come into local schools to deliver sessions about the countryside code

If OP is in a popular destination I doubt that will be enough. My dad helps run D of E at the school I used to go to, and they take them on the expeditions hours away (this weekend they've gone from the SE to the Lake District).
If it's a local school you get frequently OP, I'd say speak to them directly. But I'd probably look at signage, and speaking to D of E directly if you're getting a range of schools.

This. There are several local schools which appear to register entire year groups and push them through it. We’re seeing it from the volunteering side - a lot more parents getting in touch to ask about their disinterested DC volunteering with us (we do still get the occasional DC who asks themselves and is excellent), I can’t imagine they are kids who are hugely engaged on the expedition either.

Taking pisstakey ironic videos/photos about how bad a DofE expedition was is very much the thing, so again not surprised to hear that a lot of it seems to involve that.

Agree with the poster who suggested seeing if you can work out where they camp - if nothing else it might help you find out the names of the schools when the kids are less forthcoming.

Complain to D of E.

DH says to get photos if possible.

He thinks they will fine the assessor and it will invalidate the award.

The kids are supposed to respect land owners and are taught this. If they are dicking about they've failed the course.

Contact the relevant office.

www.dofe.org/offices/

They can make the local assessors aware of the issue as they will know which groups are passing your home.

It does need clamping down on and you are right to want to contact them.

You must be joking? Like I have the time or inclination to go into schools... I'm a little bit busy raising kids and, you know, helping run a farm

I couldn't agree more that young people need to be more engaged with the countryside but I can't be responsible for making that happen (other than with my own DC and their friends, who have all picked blackberries, seen hares, heard skylarks etc)

I think D of E is a great scheme btw. I'm just staggered by how immature and daft the kids doing it this year seem!

@Mysteriousgirl2 the OP shouldn't have to go into local schools to educate kids on not trespassing or doing stupid dangerous shit! That's the schools/DofE management job since they are running this course!
OP can't reasonably go into every school that will cross her land in the future.

Oh interesting, thanks. Photos it is from now on!

I don’t think it’s your job to go round schools teaching the country code and dangers of playing with machinery. I’m sure you don’t have the time even if you did have the inclination. Personally I’d email DofE and outline the issue in detail. Id also photograph anyone sitting on machinery or throwing litter and stick their images on their local Facebook to shame them.

You can report to DofE by email at this address.

[email protected]

The schools should already have reported some of these as they'd count as incidents under DofE Incident Reporting criteria including 'deliberate damage to property or conflict with another party (e.g. a landowner)' and 'doesn’t cause harm, but had the potential to do so'.