Quitting career to do PGCE?

[DisneyLady1]

Hi Mumsnetters,

I'm at a crossroads, and unsure what to do. Thought I'd post on here to see if anyone has any nuggets of advice!

I've been lucky to get a place on a PGCE course teaching English at high school level, starting in a few months. It's something I've always dreamed of doing, but was advised by other teachers I know to do something different (at least initially).

After having DC1 I now feel is a good time to take the plunge, as I'm not getting any younger!! There is never a good time to do something like this (I find) and I am lucky to have savings to fall back on for the year of study.

I do have some worries though!

Worry one: Is PGCE compatible with a child in nursery? I would hate to get through the year and feel as if I'd missed out on his development and like an absent mother. I know some people unfortunately don't have any options when it comes to this, but my current job have kindly agreed to let me work part time. I've heard horror stories about the PGCE but understand that people maybe only share them on here if they've gone through a bad experience. I do work in a high pressure business and have done for 15 years, so I am excellent at prioritising and doing just enough to get by.

Worry two: Is teaching as hard as people say it is? I read horrendous accounts on here, but my friends and family who are high school teachers all say it's not actually that bad, and they don't seem to be working all evenings/weekends/holidays like I hear some people do. What's the truth? I loved my experiences teaching, but work experience can only show you so much as you don't have the accountability/targets etc that real full time teachers would.

Worry three: I'll be quitting a solid and stable career with a decent salary for the unknown. I like my current job, it is satisfying... but I just don't feel as if it has much meaning to me. I think that's why it is low stress, because it doesn't actually matter in the grand scheme of things! I'd like to do something that matters to me, but I know this will bring other stresses too, and my salary will be cut by more than 60% to do this.

So it's a question of following my passion and the unknown vs. sticking with a stable, yet perhaps less exciting career.

Thanks for reading my rant and any advice you might offer!

I think you are completely and utterly crazy. Why would you quit a low stress job for one with extremely high stress job with huge quantities of marking. English is the hardest subject in many ways. Ok you get holidays but you have no flexibility whatsoever. Almost all office jobs seem way more flexible to me. You have to pay loads for a mediocre pension so your take home is low and you can only go on holiday in term time which is so expensive. Your pay is low and there are few prospects of improving it unless the tories get voted out. Even middle management is not well paid for the hours you do. It is a rewarding job and I do enjoy it a lot of thr time but it is really hard dealing with awful behavior often and working in poor conditions eg boiling hot in summer and cold in winter!

@DisneyLady1 re morning sickness. I struggled A LOT

Those on here who say they’re used to long hours and tight deadlines sadly underestimate the impact one of the major stresses of teaching nowadays - behaviour. And I mean behaviour of kids AND parents.

You only have to read the countless “I’m going to go fucking nuclear at his/her teacher” threads on here to realise how utterly delightful some parents are. And if that’s what the parents are like, imagine teaching their offspring 🙄.

I’ve name changed for this because it’s quite outing.
6 years ago I left an exceedingly stressful demanding and reasonably well paid job in the public sector which I thought I hated to do a PGCE (secondary). I lasted it three months, 28 started with me only 6 finished.
It was the worst three months of my life and I still have the occasional nightmares about it. I knew within about 5 days I’d made the wrong decision. I was early 50’s and I do wonder if you can’t always teach an old dog new tricks. I had done my previous job since I was 18 apart from three years out to do a completely unrelated degree which I loved. What the job was and is it’s values/ethos is written through me it has made me the person I am I don’t think this helped, frankly I felt like an alien who’d landed on a strange planet whose ethos way of working I didn’t like or understand. Also I knew I could walk out of the PGCE and go back to my old job the next day in fact my boss kept sending me messages saying how much everyone missed me so unlike all the others on my course I had an easy escape route and no financial incentive to make it work.
I hated it because:

1. frankly I thought it was boring I came from a very high pressure stressful environment where often every second is different things were constantly evolving and changing, I was often having to make difficult and complex decisions. Personally I thrive in this environment.
2. I was used to working in a team and as a team we supported each other there was banter and gallows humour and tears and frustrations but we still were there for each other. In teaching there seemed bar a few exceptions little or no support either colleagues or the “SLT”.
3. teachers never stop morning about how hard there job is or how hard they work. I’m not saying they don’t work hard but I can tell you on an hour to hour basis when you’re actually in work doing the the job I worked a million times harder in my other job. But they do a lot of unnecessary crap that IMO makes the hours required longer than they need to be. I acknowledge this is not their choice.
4. I have worked with children for 30+ years and underpinning everything I do is the need to form a meaningful relationship with a child and it’s family to enable me to do the best for them, I may only have contact with a child and their for 10 mins or it could be years they may be dying critically unwell or just have a sore throat but it’s a partnership no one is better or in charge as a team it’s all about the individual child. Teachers have to be in charge (in accept this) but many feel they are better than the children and IMO place themselves on pedestals and demand respect. There was a them and us ethos. I couldn’t get my head round this it was so contrary to everything I believed. It was about the children it was about them as teachers first and foremost. I often read on here parents saying my DC complained that a teacher did XYZ and immediately they are told ask the teacher they will tell you what really happened. I accept that children exaggerate but teachers are only fallible I saw some real crap going on.
5. I am a bit of a loose cannon and like to go off piste or improvise the teacher running the training in the school I was placed said there is no room in teaching nowadays for loose cannons especially when you first start out in your teaching cater after a lengthy discussion I think we both realised that my personality wasn’t suited to it.
6. lastly my mentor was a complete bitch (I hope you’re in here reading this you’ll know who you are ) she lied underpinned me and was thoroughly unpleasant she talked to me like I was a 16 year old I don’t think I’d have stuck it out long term if she’d been different but she definitely hastened my exit. I work with student all the time some are crap but I would never treat them the way I was treated. I wasn’t the only one who felt like this 10 left in the first term the appallingly way we were treated and the total lack of support by the schools we were placed in was mainly cited as the reasons people left. Don’t give me “we don’t have time to mentor and support students properly” thus absolute bull shit. My old job was a 100 times more busy and demanding but I had to make time.

The best thing I returned to my old job and having realised I didn’t hate it in fact despite all the crap we have to put up with the job and I are one and the same I am the job it has defined me and made me the person I am for better or worse and that this is where I’m meant to be.

Agree about behaviour. I think it is actually the number one issue. Constant disruption, lack of support and aggressive and unhelpful parents.

@Archeron
Echo all of this. I’m a teacher (in a leadership position now) and have been for 12yrs. I have a small child I barely see, I’m paid for 4 days atm but work 6 and I’m dreading being back full time next year. I love my job, I love the kids, it’s ‘meaningful’ but my god I’d kill for a low stress stable job with a 60% pay rise!!!

I tried to do a PGCE.
I did a two week session in the school my uni suggested and found it utter hell.
So many things were wrong. Buildings decrepit, only 60% of the kids turned up, no learning taking place, burnt out staff, under financed.
I backed out and found a better employ.
My suggestion is that you stay with your career
Good luck

I made a career change and went into primary teaching. This was around 2010. I barely lasted 2 years and am still paying off the student loan! It was THE most stressful job I've ever done, and I've done loads of different jobs. Even this thread is given me palpitations just thinking about it. It's what everyone else said: the workload, the bureaucracy, the blame game, the lack of respect for teachers (from parents and SLT also), the box-ticking, Ofsted, marking, justifying why you are doing what you are doing, prepping kids for SATS rather than actually teaching them and so on.

During my PGCE, I had a miscarriage, there was no care whatsoever from the tutors. I then went to my training school while I was still recovering, it was horrendous. The teacher just used me as a substitute rather than a trainee and I had no support. When I started teaching, I had hyperplasia and was bleeding heavily but again, you just had to get on with it. Even when I bled through my clothes I had to go and clean myself up and come back and carry on. What I'm saying is there's no flexibility, either. People say you get long holidays but actually you do work during the holidays, too.

I'm coming to this as someone who made a career change into teaching later in life rather than someone who has done teaching for years and knows how to handle it. I understand what you mean about making a difference and I believe the best way to do this is alongside your job now - volunteering, mentoring etc. You can volunteer to go and read with kids in school or become a mentor for a teenager. I honestly wouldn't recommend you switching careers. Focus on having a second child, take maternity and then have a rethink. With a new government coming in, hopefully, education may change (though I doubt it much) but it might be clearer then.

My daughter did a PGCE the year before last and is just about to finish her first year teaching. She didn't have to juggle her PGCE with parenthood but one of her fellow trainees had two young children and managed fine (she had a very supportive husband apparently)!

My daughter loves her job and finds it extremely rewarding. The impression I get is that a huge amount depends on the individual school. My daughter has been lucky to find a job in a school where behaviour in class is pretty good (it probably helps that she only teaches 6th formers) though there are definitely some problems outside class with issues like vaping.

She has found the SLT and other staff to be unfailingly supportive and appreciative. Most of her students have also been very appreciative and she was in tears saying goodbye to her upper 6th students and reading the lovely things they have wrote in their thank you cards. She had a similar experience in the school in which she did most of her training.

She works hard but doesn't find her workload unreasonable. She also knows that things will get easier as she becomes more experienced, especially in her second subject (she has a psychology degree but also teaches sociology).

Based on her experience I'd definitely say go for it, but I'd also say pick your school wisely!

I am so sorry to hear about your miscarriage @Aavalon57 and how you were treated. This is something I did wonder about too, having also had a miscarriage in the past. I can't imagine having to get up and teach with all that going on mentally (not to mention the physical pain too).

Fifthtimelucky
Teaching only sixth form is not the same at all as teaching y7 to 11. Behaviour management is not the same priority.

Many teachers end up going part time because working full time and having young children is so difficult. Is this something you could afford to do if you are already taking a pay cut? How much support will your partner be able to provide? Some of my friends who teach full time manage to do so because their partners work 9 to 5 jobs so do the bulk of childcare during term time then the teaching partner does more during the school holidays.

Teaching in general is ball breaking on every level. With a young child it's going to be incredibly hard mentally and physically

You do get the holidays which is helpful when you have children but please don't underestimate how difficult this is going to be

I have to be honest I wouldn't become a teacher if I could have my time again.. if you have other options, explore those. Maybe look at student support services?

I've done a PGCE (albeit primary). Think very very carefully if it's something you really want to do. It's no walk in the park. Nobody on my cohort had a good year for varying reasons. Your life will depend heavily on your placements. It's a complete lottery. Your mentor will also be a big factor in whether you enjoy your time at your placements or not. Some can make your life hell - others can be reasonable and help you. Get as much experience as you can before starting would be my advice. But I want to briefly answer your questions :

Worry one : You will get bogged down by the sheer amount of work that gets thrown at you and you may feel as if you are drowning. There will always be something, but it's manageable. My advice here is to work smarter and not harder. For example, if you get tasked with writing a philosophy of education, just find one on the internet and tweak it. A lot of what they ask you to do is pointless imho. Uni's can be absolute swines for ticking boxes, so as long as you do the important things well, i.e. - the assignments and do the bare minimum for the less important stuff, you should be fine. Also, I used to bring my laptop into lectures and research/type up my assignments. I could get away with it depending on the type of lecture and lecturer. Use every spare minute you have in class and uni so you're not bringing work home. A lot of my cohort were parents and left uni at a reasonable hour and school too. Forget about working part-time or anything else though. Also, what support do you have at home (if any)? That is going to be important for organising and managing your life. Expect a few late nights too...at one point I didn't know what day it was.

Worry two : This is very subjective. Some people will find it 'harder' because of the way they use their time. Some will find it harder because they are fresh out of uni and have no real life experience. Some will find it challenging because there's no support and they have children. Some are just not cut out for teaching and their subject is very heavy and there's so much to learn. But generally speaking, most teachers find it so difficult because of their school and the environment that they're teaching in. This is the biggest factor you need to consider if you're going into this tough profession. It's a huge investment to make and the chances of you now landing a really good, supportive school are quite slim. After Covid, schools are dealing with so much more now than they ever were. Why do you think teachers are striking?! - The resources are not there, children have so many more mental health issues that affect their learning. Bullying is rife. Behaviour of pupils can be out of control. Weak management and parents can be a juggling act. Meetings, parents' evenings, marking, planning. You'll also have to deal with the low morale of staff and going into a negative environment everyday can take it's toll. Think about your subject. English is very heavy in terms of marking. I've heard it does get easier after a few years though...but those first few years are very tough. (I'm glad I didn't wait to find out!).

Worry three : I think you're bonkers. Utterly bonkers - but I admire you want to try something new, Teaching is a thankless profession. So, although you want to try something 'rewarding', you may not get many of those days. You will feel frustrated that you can't do your best, or even your job because of factors that inhibit your teaching. Did I mention 'Ofsted?'.

The salary - You won't move up the pay scale because you'll be tied into the crappy ECT pay for two years. You will definitely be hit hard in terms of pay and also work. I would worry about the time you'll have with your DC and how the stresses of the job would affect your life. Unless you have a ton of cash sitting around, or could very easily go back into your career then I wouldn't dream of doing it. If you factor in your salary to the amount of hours you'll be working, you would probably be better off working at Aldi.

If you want to get into teaching, perhaps think about signing up to an online organisation like OutSchool. You don't need any qualifications to actually teach on there. Some teachers on there make a mint. Or maybe become a T.A in a school and see what life is really like and get some more experience before committing yourself.

I feel sad that it's come to this for so many public sector workers, but professions like these now are just not worth it imho. The commitment, pay, stresses, work conditions, no work/life balance. Unfortunately, claps don't pay bills.

Good Luck with whatever you decide to do.

Is PGCE compatible with a child in nursery?

Do you have solid-gold back-up childcare for when your child is ill? Will it be you expected to do the drop-offs and pick-ups and what will you do if your placement is too far away to make this practical? What about when you are at university?

Same concerns for when you get a job. And if you are having a second child, what about then juggling school run and nursery? Schools often require you on site by 8:30am or earlier which I only managed by having a nursery close to my school rather than my home. I can't remember how I managed when I had one in school (breakfast club opened at 8am) and one in nursery. Badly, I think.

Ex teacher here and I wouldn’t advise anyone go into it.

Former teacher, too. Don't. Just don't. Nobody needs that pain.

Teaching is not compatible with children- you miss drop offs pick ups, plays, sports days etc.

Now is not a good time to be a teacher (I'm a teacher!) I would really not do it. It's stressful, you're very unpopular (strikes!!) And it's hours of work at night so the pressure to get the kids to bed so you can work is real.

In your position I would not give up on a wfh job.

The thing is, someone has to do it. The retention and recruitment situation is dire and we need good people to teach our kids. So I say go for it OP, and I say that as a teacher of 16 years experience. My dc are now 12 and 9.

I have always been able to attend nativities and tv as my school is very supportive and knows that if it allows staff this flexibility they will reap the rewards in terms of staff loyalty and good will. Do you need to find a good school.

The training year and ect years will be challenging but once you build up a bank of resources it will be much easier, especially if you find a school where staff collaborate and share.

Ignore "and tv"

I think I meant etc

Parents value English

Your entire post clearly demonstrates that you don’t work in education and know how awful it is at the moment but this comment above makes me incandescent with rage. I’m an English teacher with more than a decade’s worth of experience. Parents don’t value English whatsoever. The amount of complaints I have dealt with and continue to deal with the for the audacity of asking students to do something like reading at home is insane. Fewer and fewer parents actually see school as anything other than childcare.

OP, I’ve seen that a brilliant English teacher in your own education is partly the reason you want to teach. I’m about to, on a Saturday, unpaid and unacknowledged by my SLT, having to go into work for the afternoon to work on an ‘urgent’ project for September that I have been given no extra time to complete on top of my HoD role. I will also need to give this project 2/3 hours of my day tomorrow. This project used to be completed by a full time member of staff, not a teacher with responsibilities and a full teaching load. Please listen to those of us saying how tough it is - there is vanishingly little to recommend this job right now.

I did the PGCE with one child in nursery and one in infant school. I missed loads and loads and of their childhood. The course and subsequent teaching job ruined all my term time weekends and evenings and put an intolerable strain on my marriage. There is no way I would have been able to work with morning sickness either.

The pay and conditions are appalling. I went into the course with the same optimism that you display, OP, but was battered down by the system.

theveg
The thing is, someone has to do it.

Well no, they don’t, which is why so many of us left or are leaving.

My wife has left teaching - she was a high-school and A-level English teacher for her entire career, and is now retraining to be a therapist. My insight is obviously biased, but I think it is as bad out there as you read here, and unless this is something you are very, very prepared to face into, don't do it.

As a parent with children in the system, however, I would love to see more people like you moving into teaching. You would be a valuable addition to any school, I'm sure. But you need to put yourself first in this equation!