Quitting career to do PGCE?

[DisneyLady1]

Hi Mumsnetters,

I'm at a crossroads, and unsure what to do. Thought I'd post on here to see if anyone has any nuggets of advice!

I've been lucky to get a place on a PGCE course teaching English at high school level, starting in a few months. It's something I've always dreamed of doing, but was advised by other teachers I know to do something different (at least initially).

After having DC1 I now feel is a good time to take the plunge, as I'm not getting any younger!! There is never a good time to do something like this (I find) and I am lucky to have savings to fall back on for the year of study.

I do have some worries though!

Worry one: Is PGCE compatible with a child in nursery? I would hate to get through the year and feel as if I'd missed out on his development and like an absent mother. I know some people unfortunately don't have any options when it comes to this, but my current job have kindly agreed to let me work part time. I've heard horror stories about the PGCE but understand that people maybe only share them on here if they've gone through a bad experience. I do work in a high pressure business and have done for 15 years, so I am excellent at prioritising and doing just enough to get by.

Worry two: Is teaching as hard as people say it is? I read horrendous accounts on here, but my friends and family who are high school teachers all say it's not actually that bad, and they don't seem to be working all evenings/weekends/holidays like I hear some people do. What's the truth? I loved my experiences teaching, but work experience can only show you so much as you don't have the accountability/targets etc that real full time teachers would.

Worry three: I'll be quitting a solid and stable career with a decent salary for the unknown. I like my current job, it is satisfying... but I just don't feel as if it has much meaning to me. I think that's why it is low stress, because it doesn't actually matter in the grand scheme of things! I'd like to do something that matters to me, but I know this will bring other stresses too, and my salary will be cut by more than 60% to do this.

So it's a question of following my passion and the unknown vs. sticking with a stable, yet perhaps less exciting career.

Thanks for reading my rant and any advice you might offer!

@DisneyLady1 It sounds like it's your dream! Do it. You can always go back to your other field of it doesn't work out. Congratulations on getting a place on the course. Any new opportunity or change will have difficulties. You will find a way, particularly if you have a supportive partner, and parents nearby. Good luck! You will regret it if you don't give it a go.

I taught secondary English. You don’t mark every book every lesson like primary. In fact some schools have a ‘mark only assignments’ policy and books are never marked - they are ‘work books’. Assignments would be half termly for each class.

Personally I used to circulate and mark books in lessons whilst the kids were working, get them to self mark, peer mark ( using the mark scheme so the knowledge was embedded), even occasionally got the TA to go through the books. Good practice is only to pick out 3 ‘mistakes’ to work on anyway - you don’t micromark every spelling mistake.

Of course it ramps up as exams approach and English is the most marking heavy subject but you do learn techniques to manage it. And my students always did really well before anyone asks.

Just keep on mind English teachers spend their lives marking!

Choose the school you work in well that hs a supportive leadership team and excellent ethos of sharing resources in the department and you will be able to manage. I work in a school where the head allows parents afternoons of too attend sports days/ nativities (without pay) unless you have a free period/gained time. Schools are now trying to find ways to 'stand out' during recruitment as there is such a crisis, id put money on them allowing you to negotiate nativities/sports days off etc if you're a good teacher and they want you,
My department also has masses of resources to use, now that I'm into my 4th year of teaching I can pick these up and edit them for my classes very quickly. I stay at school until 5pm everyday and manage to do all of my work to a good standard (recent internal promotions and lesson observations show that I'm 'not doing a terrible job' either.)
In my opinion it's one of the best jobs, no day is the same, teenagers can be hilarious (and frustrating!) and I have never ever felt bored/clock watched at work. I don't get Sunday blues and I absolutely love having the holidays. I feel smug when my non teacher friends are trying to scrape together childcare for the summer holidays and I get to spend my time with my kids. Yes you work hard during term time, but you get a holiday of at least a week roughly every 6 weeks...where can you find that anywhere else?

@theresnolimits thanks for the insight into marking - that is heartening to know it's not every book/every lesson!

I absolutely would not do this. I left a lucrative corporate job to become an English teacher. I loved teaching, I loved my subject. But sadly, that's such a small part of the profession now. I spent six years being slowly run into the ground, some of which was during my son's earliest years. The experience led to me having a mental health crisis.

Some points to consider:

1. I went part-time after my son was born. Part-time in teaching is full time, for less money. Days off were spent prepping and marking.

2. English has the highest marking workload of any subject. I had two GCSE classes of 32/33 students each. Each would regularly produce 1,500 word essays. The volume of marking for that alone was insane - then add in all your KS3 classes as well and you are drowning.

3. Behaviour is a huge issue in many schools. I got out pre-Covid but I think it's even worse now. I worked in an outstanding school and still saw children throw furniture, swear at teachers and constantly talk through lessons. Parents don't support like they used to. Sanctions are often ineffective.

4. Pointless bureaucracy is rife. Endless filling in of data sheets, lesson plans, pupil forms. Add in reports twice termly and there just isn't the time.

5. You are responsible for outcomes you can't fully control. You can cajole, incentivise, beg students to study for their GCSEs but ultimately if they have a shit home life and don't want to / can't work, then there's nothing you can do. But their lack of progress or inability to get a predicted grade WILL be held against you.

I think the problem with teaching at the moment is that the people controlling it (ie politicians who went to private school) have absolutely no clue what it's like now. The system is creaking at the seams and failing everyone - students and teachers. It's not fit for purpose.

Agree about the system not being fit for purpose @AlbertCampion . I suppose my naive dream would be to eventually move into a role where I might be able to influence things - but perhaps that's what every new teacher thinks! It is such a shame, makes me so angry!

Honestly I think you'd have to be bloody insane to think this was a good idea, especially if you want to have a second child shortly.

Yeh job your mum has no longer exists and teaching is no longer family friendly. Work life balance is not a phrase I'd apply to teaching, stay where you are and be thankful you asked before taking the leap.

Really sorry to hear about your mental health @AlbertCampion . No job is worth that :(

The other option is to look at FE teaching and teach A levels and GCSE English to students who are motivated and interested in the subject.

Teaching at secondary and students stating "when is this ever going to help me in life?", "What's the point?", "It's alright I'm going to work with my dad when I leave school, I don't need GCSEs" , "my parents never got any GCSEs, they say you don't need em" is all rather soul destroying.

English teacher - 13 years experience here.

A lot will depend on the school you work in, but as an English teacher you will have a huge amount of marking and planning to do because you'll have fewer classes and more lessons with each of them.

Workload in general is very intense. Covid has negatively impacted all aspects of education - behaviour, progress, SEND etc
Chronic underfunding over the last 13 years has also made the job (in my experience) harder and harder.

I am currently on mat leave, going back four days a week and pretty desperate not to return but financially don't have much option. Looking for alternatives as I will still be working a 40 hour week even part time and I don't know how I will balance that with having a baby/toddler. (Many people do, I know, I just want a better work life balance).

There are very rewarding aspects to teaching but it is very rigid and that makes it less compatible with family life, in my opinion. I am also never able to switch off from work - the job literally never ends, you need firm boundaries in place, or you could work all the hours god sends.

If you go into this with your eyes open and with a genuine passion for it, you'll be successful. If you have any qualms or misgivings at this point, I would avoid it. PGCE year is tough and ECT arguably even harder and it will take over your life.

Thanks, @DisneyLady1. I'm loads better now and I work in a "normal" job. Honestly, there is no comparison. I have so much more quality time with DS, even though holidays are shorter. I spent so much of my school holidays working when I was a teacher that they just never had much of an impact.

I changed from a career in industry (long hours and high stress) to do a PGCE in Secondary when I was in my late 30s. I had a 3, 5 and 7 yo at the time. I don't think I'll ever make my old salary back!

I'd say the first few years were awful. I changed schools three times covering maternity leaves, so had all that to deal with, and all-nighters were a feature at least in the first 3-4 years, when I was working FT. It really tested our marriage as I was there in body but not in mind, for most of the first few years. Now I'm PT and I really enjoy it mostly, but my plan is to leave classroom teaching when my youngest leaves school. I also plan on staying at my current school until my classroom teaching days end.

I enjoy working with the students and I love my subject. You also feel as if you're making a difference. I was good at my old job, but this one is more fulfilling. I'm not sure I'd recommend it at the moment, unless you have a very good family support network (I had a triple layer of childcare in place). When your dd is older, it would be beneficial to make sure you work in a place that has the same holidays as she does, as if half terms differ that can be a headache too.

English teacher with 25 years experience here. I still love the job most of the time but it's really not family friendly - except in the holidays. Behaviour is tough. And as an English specialist the marking is insane. In the last 3 weeks I have marked:-

28 year 8 assessments - 3 hours
54 Year 9 assessments 4 hours
Two sets of year 10 gcse mocks - 4 hours worth of their writing, about 7 hours
5 y12 mock papers 2 hours
(And I'm b experienced so I'm quick)
Can't remember the last time I marked a set of books!

Plus reports for each year group which need to be done by next Friday.

This current thread is long, but worth a read for those considering teaching.
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4836123-is-behaviour-out-of-control-in-a-lot-of-schools

Give you an idea of what it will be like

6am wake up get ready dressed.
6.30 wake children up get dressed
7.15 leave house
7.30 arrive nursery kids children say goodbye
7.50 arrive school. Breakfast. Log on. Read/reply 10 emails or so
8.15 brief re the latest fad to combat shit behaviour
8.30 deal with complaint from parent. Collect photocopying I sent in the week before
8.40 tutor group. Deliver sessions im not qualified in to meet PSHE need that kids hate. Deal with uniform issue. Home issue. Lack of equipment.
9 first lesson. Computers aren't working everything saved on one drive. Can't access anything kids going wild. Cobble together something log on finally around 9.50
10 second lesson. Goes slightly smoother kids are ok. Nice and relatively keen with a few issues
11 - 11.15 break duty. Yet to have a wee or a drink.
11.15-12.15 lesson 3 this one is tricky. Bottom set. Disengaged. Lots of behaviour issues. No one in support as too many around school to deal with
12.15-12.45 lunch. Have a wee (finally!) scoff some food. Reply/send 10 more emails
12.45 -1 afternoon tutor (completely pointless)
1-2 lesson 4. Planned hard for this one. May or may not be having a 'learning walk' no one arrives after me worrying about it until 11.30 last night.
2-3 lesson 5 tricky y9 group with bunch of disengaged girls. Not naughty as such. Just don't care with an attitude to match. LT 'pop in' right at the moment when I've sat down for first time that day and tell me 'I need to circulate the room more'
3-4 after school club that we all have to do every week.
4-5 planning and resources for lesson 1 tomorrow
5 collect children
5.30 get home
5.30-6 play make children light supper/ spend time with them
6-6.30 bath time
6.30-7 bedtime for smallest child
7.-7.30 bedtime for eldest child
7.30-8.15 cook and eat tea
8.15-10 plan prep and prepare for following day. Check any nursery stuff needs doing
10-10.30 pack bags for nursery/school prepare lunch. Get stuff out for slow cooker
10.30-11 life admin (read a book?!)
11- bed
11.30 settle baby
1.30 settle baby
6am - do it all again!

Or is that just me?!

The ‘career’ of most teachers these days is less than five years.

There is little scope for progression, because more experienced teachers are generally more expensive and schools are looking to cut costs more and more.

Recruitment and retention are through the floor.

Teaching is not remotely family friendly, even with the ‘holidays’. You’ll spend evenings and weekends working and either in school or working at home for at least part of every holiday.

You’ll probably miss every school function that your child has.

You’ll still spend a lot of time hunched in front of a laptop.

It’s all been said. It’s not the career it was. It’s probably not even a career any more. I speak from experience. I did it, in many roles, for over 30 years. I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone now.

It’s a very, very tough gig for a new recruit starting out with a young child. There is no flexibility once you start teaching. If you need any time off during term time, appointments, running late etc you’ll need cover and it’s a massive palaver. Your day will have no flexibility - I don’t think non-teachers realise what working to such a rigid timetable feels like - bd you WILL need to work evenings and weekends, especially in the early years of your career.

English is probably the most brutal subject in terms of marking and one of the most pressurised subjects to teach overall because of the spotlight on attainment and grades.

This may sound relentlessly negative, but it is important to go in with your eyes wide open. I’ve recently left a good school - good results, fairly happy school community, healthier working culture than other schools I have worked in - and even there, the majority of our ECTs don’t stay in teaching long and probably a third of our teaching staff we’re trying to get out.

It's nice that there's still people prepared to embark on teaching. My husband has finally escaped only due to my higher salary. Good luck.

I am also thinking of changing career to do teaching. I thought about it when I was at uni but ended up just getting a grad job. My mum was a teacher (and my gran!) so I know the workload is huge.

But I currently work in tax so stressful days and long hours isn’t unusual for me. But I struggle with wfh/remote working so don’t think I’ll be able to progress in my career.

Exactly this!

It's also very difficult to leave teaching due to the notice period you have to give. Unless you are moving into the civil service like many teachers as they wait for you.

When you do move on it's difficult to make close to what you were on before asmost jobs over £35k are likely to be managerial positions and unless you are a dept head you won't have that experience.

@theresnolimits

I think this depends heavily on the school and their policy. I have known people that rotated which books were looked at as marking everything is an impossible expectation. I'm glad you're in a school with a sensible approach.

I've withdrawn from a job application before as the feedback policy wasn't online and when I asked was told I could put 'VF' for verbal feedback (I can't see the point) or mark sections. Some self or peer feedback could be used which is great but only if the pupils really understand what they are looking for. I'd have been doing KS3 and I'm not convinced the lower attainers would be able to do this without me checking. It seemed as though marking -in some form- was expected every session.
I find it tricky to 'live mark' extended writing. Assessments in English take ages to mark too.

In short,@DisneyLady1, make sure you find out about feedback policies. Expectations can differ.

I say go for it OP. As a PP said, they are taking anyone onto PGCEs at the moment and still no where to meeting their targets. Schools need warm bodies in the classrooms.

A friend who teaches on a PGCE course said they have only filled 8% of their Physics course. Another friend who teaches on a massive PGCSE course said they have 50 people for the entire course (primary and secondary) where they used to have 50 per subject!

OP if your DM is experienced and teaches tech then they won’t need to do too much in the evenings and weekends. Being an ECT for English- ha ha! Sorry but you will be working all hours. I say so it though. Schools need adults in the room.

Based on the teachers I know (who are quitting in their droves, as are their colleagues) I think you would be making a mistake and that is a very sad thing to write.