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School didn't give medicine on residential

81 replies

ChocHotolate · 28/06/2023 21:39

DS was on his Y6 PGL residential last week. It turns out that he wasn't given any of his medication which I'd sent labelled with the correct forms filled in as required.
I've emailed the school but had no response yet. It's fortunate that it's not a critical medicine but rather one which prevents a flare up of a chronic condition.
Just wondering what I should be expecting and if anyone had had a similar experience ?

OP posts:
thing47 · 30/06/2023 12:08

Well it's not. There are exceptions, of course, the devil is in the detail, which is precisely why I used the phrase 'most likely'. But it's impossible to cover all the possible scenarios in an MN post – if you want to try, go ahead and be my guest, the 'reasonable adjustments' clause is quite a tricky one.

But as a broadbrush concept, the starting point that excluding a DC who has a condition which is covered by the Equality Act for no other reason than because they have that condition will be viewed as discriminatory, is correct.

Please note this is in no way an attack on teachers, it's a comment on schools and school systems which do not always fully understand their responsibilities. The vast majority of teachers I know are really invested in their pupils and often go way beyond their contractual obligations. But schools cannot say they don't have the funding or the resources or the staffing to accommodate disabled DCs on residential trips – it may well be true, and you have my sympathy, but the truth is such arguments will be given zero weight by a court.

OwlOfBrown · 30/06/2023 12:33

Soontobe60 · 30/06/2023 11:06

Teachers are paid to work 6.5 hours a day exactly. Ask any teacher what their working hours contract looks like. As a member of staff on a residential let’s look at the actual hours worked.
Take for example a school that goes on a residential for 3 days. From 8am Monday until 6pm Wednesday. That means the staff are on duty for 58 hours. They may well get a break at night when they kids are asleep, but they’re on call so if any child wakes up / the bed / misses their mum the staff at the centre will call on the school staff to assist. Then when the staff return, they have the pleasure of going back into school the following day absolutely knackered, to teach kids who are high as kites from their adventure. The same teachers may have had to leave their own children or make complex arrangements for them to be looked after. None of these teachers will be paid overtime or have time off in lieu. They do it voluntarily - it’s not part of the School Teachers Pay and Conditions!

Exactly. It's voluntary for teachers just as it is for youth group leaders. No-one has to take on the responsibilities of taking children on a residential event. However, if they do decide they'll be part of the leader team, then they assume a duty of care and they leave themselves open to a claim of negligence if they fail in that duty of care.

And yes about the working hours involved. I took my Brownies on a residential recently and never fail to be surprised at the ability of 7 year old girls to stay awake until 3am and still be able to get up and run around at 6am. It's knackering and parents whose kids enjoy these residentials should indeed be grateful. (Obviously I do it because I enjoy it before I get the inevitable responses.)

jenandberrys · 30/06/2023 12:35

thing47 · 30/06/2023 12:08

Well it's not. There are exceptions, of course, the devil is in the detail, which is precisely why I used the phrase 'most likely'. But it's impossible to cover all the possible scenarios in an MN post – if you want to try, go ahead and be my guest, the 'reasonable adjustments' clause is quite a tricky one.

But as a broadbrush concept, the starting point that excluding a DC who has a condition which is covered by the Equality Act for no other reason than because they have that condition will be viewed as discriminatory, is correct.

Please note this is in no way an attack on teachers, it's a comment on schools and school systems which do not always fully understand their responsibilities. The vast majority of teachers I know are really invested in their pupils and often go way beyond their contractual obligations. But schools cannot say they don't have the funding or the resources or the staffing to accommodate disabled DCs on residential trips – it may well be true, and you have my sympathy, but the truth is such arguments will be given zero weight by a court.

'But as a broadbrush concept, the starting point that excluding a DC who has a condition which is covered by the Equality Act for no other reason than because they have that condition will be viewed as discriminatory, is correct.'

But that is not what this thread is about, nor is it something that anyone on this thread has suggested. The law speaks about 'reasonable' adjustments it does not impose an absolute duty to facilitate complete equality, which is what some parents do not always fully understand.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

thing47 · 30/06/2023 12:53

Threads evolve. To me this is a natural extension from the page 3 discussion saying that if demands on teachers become too unreasonable, then residential trips will cease to take place. I actually agree with you on that, I think it's asking a huge amount of teachers to give up their time voluntarily to facilitate residential trips for pupils, nor do I think it's reasonable to expect teachers to administer medicine.

Much like @OwlOfBrown, I just thought it worth pointing out that if no one is prepared to administer meds in these circumstances, then the trip most likely won't happen at all.

MykonosMaiden · 30/06/2023 16:00

jenandberrys · 30/06/2023 12:35

'But as a broadbrush concept, the starting point that excluding a DC who has a condition which is covered by the Equality Act for no other reason than because they have that condition will be viewed as discriminatory, is correct.'

But that is not what this thread is about, nor is it something that anyone on this thread has suggested. The law speaks about 'reasonable' adjustments it does not impose an absolute duty to facilitate complete equality, which is what some parents do not always fully understand.

Well exactly.
I mean giving medicine is a clear cut case where 'reasonable adjustments' can be made easily, but it is the case for some SEN DC where they need 2:1 care, very specialised assistance (e.g feeding tube, depending on the type).
If the school has tried and failed to get the requisite people that doesn't mean that the entire trip has to be cancelled.

Where schools go wrong and are (rightly!) challenges is when they decide it's not worth bothering, have no dialogue at all with the parent and generally don't try. There was a parent on here posting about her DC being the only one not going on a class trip that she only found out a few days before it was due to go ahead. Everyone else had received letters and emails about it. Just not her.

That was cruel and plain wrong.

Also as @thing47 pointed out not everyone might be willing to do everything. Take insulin injections - it's hard enough for family (as I have done for younger members) to give them. Especially when the child struggles or is unwilling. You can bet that parents will be down on a teacher like a ton of bricks, if he/she hurts their kid by accident.

Schools tend to get around this by getting a parent to go, and if they can't then their kid doesn't either. That's a grey area but again depends on what the adjustment is.

somewhereovertherain · 30/06/2023 16:02

ChocHotolate · 28/06/2023 21:39

DS was on his Y6 PGL residential last week. It turns out that he wasn't given any of his medication which I'd sent labelled with the correct forms filled in as required.
I've emailed the school but had no response yet. It's fortunate that it's not a critical medicine but rather one which prevents a flare up of a chronic condition.
Just wondering what I should be expecting and if anyone had had a similar experience ?

At 11 I'd be expecting your child to know about it.......

I'm sure it wasn't forgotten on purpose give them a break

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