School didn't give medicine on residential

[ChocHotolate]

DS was on his Y6 PGL residential last week. It turns out that he wasn't given any of his medication which I'd sent labelled with the correct forms filled in as required.
I've emailed the school but had no response yet. It's fortunate that it's not a critical medicine but rather one which prevents a flare up of a chronic condition.
Just wondering what I should be expecting and if anyone had had a similar experience ?

Its not difficult.

I do this regularly as a volunteer Scout leader. If I can manage as a volunteer to stick to a simple process then a paid professional should be able to get it together long enough not to put children's health at risk.

There are other disabilities you know. This parent is fed up with people like you who seem to think autism is the only one that matters.

The medicine should have been given.
It wasn't.
It's a mistake.
The named member of staff responsible for the mistake will be told.

This is a wholly inadequate response and explains why very simple stuff like this goes wrong in the first place.

You’re making the assumption that there was a clear process, rather than a reliance on a teacher’s memory.

@WiseUpJanetWeiss

Which reinforces my point

Can teachers be compelled to take on the role of being responsible for medication on a residential which am assuming is voluntary? If no-one agrees to do so (and I can see why so so) who would?

@WiseUpJanetWeiss That isn't my "response".
It's an accurate summary of what happened, why it happened, and what action will be taken.

@MichelleScarn no, they can't. A innd the unions are 100% behind them. My school won't let us give any kind of medication even on school premises. I'm about to work on a summer residential where our Centre Manager has overall responsibility for medication, but again, the students themselves have to administer any.

It's quite ridiculous (and rather worrying) that posters believe the existence of a RA mean that no mistakes are ever going to happen, or are smugly convinced that just because their trips have thus far had no issues means it never will "because of the RA".

A RA is as good as the (often many) human beings who come into contact with it. Not all of them as perfect as Mumsnetters taking Brownies camping. Clearly.

Thanks for answer @WhenIWasAFieldMyself I don't think teachers should have to and glad union's.are supportive.

He was out of routine and away from home - lots of kids would forget. It’s on the adults to ensure he has taken it.

Well one condition of running a residential to PGL will be that someone does take on that role. You can't compel anyone to do it but obviously if everyone refuses then the trip won't happen.

From what I've read on mn and Facebook about residentials, I can imagine residentials probably won't be happening anymore by time my dc are age.theyd happen.

Was just about to say what @OwlOfBrown has. The corollary of not taking this responsibility on (and I can quite understand why teachers might not want to) is that the whole trip is cancelled for everyone.

What a school cannot do is leave the child requiring medicine behind. That would fall foul of the 2010 Equality Act – if the condition is asthma, diabetes, anaphylaxis or anything else covered by the Act, at least. That is legislative and therefore ignoring it or trying to circumvent it will most likely constitute breaking the law.

It's quite ridiculous (and rather worrying) that posters believe the existence of a RA mean that no mistakes are ever going to happen, or are smugly convinced that just because their trips have thus far had no issues means it never will "because of the RA".

Not at all. The RA for an activity isn't carried out to prevent every accident or mistake. It's carried out to make sure we have thought about potential accidents/mistakes and how we can minimise their occurrence and the potential harm that might result. It's there so that every adult understands their responsibilities, knows who is responsible for what, and are all on the same page. Mostly it's there to cover my own back and to show I haven't just merrily taken other people's children off on an activity or residential without a thought for their safety.

Better keep those Girlguiding and Scouting leaders on side then! 😀At least we're willing to take on the massive responsibility despite being scoffed at on Mumsnet! 😁

Another misunderstanding, this time about the Equality Act. It appears that a very little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!

Occasionally things happen because a combination of factors. And yes, human error is one and it's not always a cop out. I made a mistake at work once which shouldn't have happened normally. My dad was dying in hospital and I was under a lot of personal stress. I perhaps shouldn't have been in work but I'd thought I was ok, and it was a school, so no-one to cover me. However, that particular day work was particularly busy and more stressful than most days, with other staff off, lots going on and just less time to think actions through. So I was rushing through my tasks, one of which was to do with medication, had what you'd call a "brain fart", I suppose, mind on my dad, and made the error. It was all ok in the end but I was really upset. There was no lack of knowledge, no lack of competence. I don't know how you mitigate for staff members who are under personal stress but don't realise it. It's not like I work somewhere where we are adequately resourced, with enough staffing because it's education and that has been under resourced for a decade or more.

But do we say to parents that because of that small risk of multiple factors coming together on that particular day, involving human error purely due to staff personal stress, that we will not give medicine? In many schools there simply are not multiple staff available at a particular time to take over a task that would ordinarily be done by someone different.

OP, I would actually be specifically asking the school what went wrong with the evening medication-giving process? As clearly the morning process worked fine , so what was different about the evening routine? Was it that the time that you had specifically requested it be given at a time that was difficult for staff to manage because they had other/too many responsibilties at that time, or because there was a change of plan in terms of activities and so the group was not near the place where that particular medication was kept, a mental plan was made to give it later on and then it was forgotten about?

i have an autistic child. BUT, absolutely every thread someone pipes up that the child could have autism - the poster would've said. just seems like me me me all the time

No, it was a reply to one specific poster who said at 11 a child should be able to speak up. Just pointing out that not every child can speak up and for some it has consequences. I wasn't saying OPs child has autism. Just some do.

Shockingly, some teachers don't know that just because a child can't communicate a problem there might not be an absence of problems. That an important thing for people to know on a thread about not giving something as important as meds. Thankfully not many teachers but occasionally you'll get one where it has serious consequences.

Haven't RTFT. But it seems to me that a lot of people on this thread are minimising the seriousness of this (not just potential seriousness, actual seriousness). This time it could have led to a flare up (which could possibly have had further consequences). Next time it could be a fatality. Yes, Risk Assessments for Never Events should cover duplication so it does never happen; this one didn't or the system totally failed. Yes a Y6 needs to learn to take more responsibility before secondary school (but I agree some would have other SEND) but the teachers are in loco parentis, the children aren't in loco parentis for themselves and up to at least 16 and possibly 18 (18+ for more vulnerable students) are in charge of medication!!

Teachers want to be considered, treated, and paid as professionals, and quite rightly so. But there is growing evidence including this latest that a subset of them are definitely NOT professional. If the head and governors try to minimise this, throw the book at them.

It's not that hard to get this right and even if it is hard, it's part of the job. Taking kids on residentials say once a year in Year 5 & 6 is also part of the job and has been since my parents started teaching in the 60s if not before that. My teachers were capable of doing it and doling out the medication when I was at primary school 40 years ago, my children's teachers 20 years ago. As someone said, scout leaders etc. can manage it. So what was the problem here?

I will always be polite as I am incredibly grateful that DS was given the opportunity to go on the residential and that the teachers were able to take him

This is part of the problem isn't it? Why do you feel you have to start from the point of being incredibly grateful? For what - that in term-time a teacher did most of what they were paid to do but 'forgot' to give medication to a child ie care properly for that child, and possibly for other children in their care? It's the same as the expectation that we'll be incredibly grateful every time a nurse or HCA does something normal and part of their job in hospital, and never mind that they can't seem to do the basic level of feeding and general care, and log it on the system, as determined is necessary by other professionals (SLTs and doctors). Even when the ward is not short staffed. This expectation from some but not all staff is not of just a normal level of grateful and being polite and saying thank you but to excess is getting out of hand. So is being expected to suck up life threatening mistakes and present them in this faux-grateful way for consideration. And this excessive performative nonsense also takes more time up which is in very short supply in both teaching and nursing. I don't think it helps the cases of those who are (again quite rightly) asking, and striking, for better pay and conditions whether that's teachers or nurses, and it's quite obvious some good staff are against this and just want everyone to get on with their job, patients, relatives, or other staff to speaking up quickly and reasonably politely, and everyone solving problems as they come, unfettered.

So what did the school say when they rang you?

Having fought that exact battle a few years ago, all the way to the courts, and won a discrimination case on precisely that basis, I can assure you that I know plenty about the Act! It's probably a bit too complex to cover all the nuances on MN, so maybe my extremely shortened version gave the impression I didn't know what I was talking about. I do, however.

@BlockbusterVideoCard
'part of the job'? Correct me if I'm wrong, but residentials aren't mandatory. I don't know if they used to be. With budgets slashed to the bone and many familiar struggling they barely have enough money for essentials, let alone this.

Also 20 years ago there weren't as many children with health conditions. It seems that everyone has something wrong with them these days whether it's SEN, a gluten allergy, etc.

I'm not saying that the school shouldn't be held accountable - absolutely they should! But teachers run residentials voluntarily. It's not something they HAVE to do, or are trained to do.

Unlike HCP giving medication.

Teachers are paid to work 6.5 hours a day exactly. Ask any teacher what their working hours contract looks like. As a member of staff on a residential let’s look at the actual hours worked.
Take for example a school that goes on a residential for 3 days. From 8am Monday until 6pm Wednesday. That means the staff are on duty for 58 hours. They may well get a break at night when they kids are asleep, but they’re on call so if any child wakes up / the bed / misses their mum the staff at the centre will call on the school staff to assist. Then when the staff return, they have the pleasure of going back into school the following day absolutely knackered, to teach kids who are high as kites from their adventure. The same teachers may have had to leave their own children or make complex arrangements for them to be looked after. None of these teachers will be paid overtime or have time off in lieu. They do it voluntarily - it’s not part of the School Teachers Pay and Conditions!

Weird that you would choose to post something that gives an erroneous impression in that case.