Would you defer your child? (SCOTLAND)

[mistermagpie]

Sorry about shouting about Scotland, just there's often a lot of confusion on this kind of post, and the Scottish board isn't very busy so I've put my question here!

My daughter is only three, she will be 4 in November. She is due to start school in August 2024 and so will be 4 years and about 9 months old.

Simple question I suppose - would you defer her? And why, if you would. We can, it wouldn't have a huge impact on us in any way really, nursery would continue to be funded and she's happy there.

Relevant info - she's a third child and much more advanced than my other two were at that age (they are boys, might be a reason), she wasn't premature or anything and hasn't had any developmental delays. She's quite bright but behaviour isn't great, although nothing outwith normal three year old stuff.

I was 5 the december after I started school.
My mum (a teacher) felt that I was ready & I was.

But at the other end when I was in high school I wasn't ready. I was 12 choosing subject with no idea what I wanted to do.
In the end it's your choice.

Yes. If you have the chance to defer you should in my opinion. Girls are often seen as being capable and advanced when they are in nursery school but as they get older the differences between them and the older girls in the year become more apparent. By the time you get to high school the age gap can have quite a profound effect. Remember if you don't defer her she will likely be in class with some children who deferred the year before and will be a full year older then her. I know I'd always prefer my child to have that extra year.

Absolutely yes. I've never heard of anyone who has regretted the decision to defer. I did so with one child, having seen what happened with my first child who definitely was one of the younger in their class and less mature throughout their school classes. Neither has any issues with intellect or ability but the difference in readiness through being a bit older on entry, really helped.

Primary 1 teacher here...

I always say to parents that ask me this that if it's in your head and your questioning it then defer. They're only little for so long and another year developing socially and playing at nursery is always going to do the world of good.

Speak to the nursery staff and see what they think and if you can the P1 teacher too. Are there any other parents that are in your position where deferring is an option you can talk it through with?

As PP said I don't think it's very apparent down the school whether pupils have been deferred or not but IMO it does become noticeable up the school when pupils are at times, almost a full year (chronologically) behind their peers and in the same class with the same expectations, from my experience particularly socially. However, as we know every child is different and some cope amazingly well.

DS10 is a January birthday and DS7 is a February birthday and I deferred them both and it was the best decision I made.

Just understanding the Scottish time line...

So if she defers...
P1 at 5y9m
P7 at 11y9m
S1 at 12y9m
S6 at 17y9m
Leave school at 18.5y?

My DD has just turned 12 in England completing her first year at at Secondary school... the idea of her being at Primary for nearly another year seems strange. But obviously Scotland has always started Secondary a year later, so must be less wierd.

It can be
5 yrs 11 months now then
12 yrs 11months...

My daughter started school in the August and turned 6 at the end of September. So she'll turn 13 not long after starting secondary.

I know you said Scotland but the research in England is very clear that summer borns (who would be in the youngest in year in the English system) have poorer outcomes than Autumn born children and this lasts throughout their whole school education. They don’t catch up.

I am deferring DD. January birthday so always had the option and something I've thought and spoken to numerous people about since she was born. Nothing to do with her abilities, she has always met all milestones early etc although she is a little shy.
Reasons I decided to:

• Been told by 2 teachers that they've never had a parent regret deferring but have had a few regret not doing it.
• Surely 1 extra year of free education can only be a good thing
• I would prefer she was the oldest and sailing through than the youngest and always playing catch up
• Doing exams at 15 rather than 16 is bound to put you at some disadvantage. Even just from the point of the maturity to cope with the stress.
• A friend with January birthday, started at 4.5, told me she didn't really feel at a disadvantage until Uni, when she couldn't go out drinking or drive until so much later than her friends and she will be deferring her Jan born DC
• A friends sister started at 4.5 (feb birthday) and repeated P1 because she was struggling (40 years ago so this is unlikely now) however I think it would be very difficult having to repeat a year at school where dd has no idea she's doing an extra nursery year rather than going to school, I just told her you go to school when you're 5.

Niggles I have about it:

• Will she be more mature than the other kids in her class and not make friends easily but that works the other way too if I don't defer could she be more immature that others in her class.
• Someone has to be the youngest, is it really necessary when I'm sure she would do fine

I get a lot of these are dependant on the individual but i just feel putting her at 4.5 is starting her off at a disadvantage

Sorry, I didn't mean for that to be so long!
Another point I just remembered, when I spoke to my health visitor about it she said they would never discourage anyone from deferral if they were thinking about it, whatever the individual child's abilities

My child's birthday is early Dec and we have chosen to defer him.

Main reasons are

• An extra year of education, albeit nursery
• Extra maturity all the way through, in particular when leaving school
• Evidence about better outcomes for being older to start school (studies as outlined above and professional experience we've heard from others as above)

You'll never know which is best either way, but I thought we'd be less likely to regret deferring.

My daughter was the youngest in year and thrived.

I personally wouldn't defer - Primary 1 is still mostly play based learning anyway but with a bit more structure to the day.
Remember, she's still got a whole year left of nursery so plenty of time for her to grow out of that typical 3 year old behaviour phase.
Will some of her nursery friends also be staying back in nursery for an extra year? She might be ready for P1 and excited if she's got friends around her age who are doing the same.

Of course, it's up to you and you'll have that option given her birthday, but I think a deferral is unnecessary unless there are developmental concerns or issues around transitioning (i.e. will she need more time to prepare for being in P1).

As a longterm P1 teacher I'm quite bemused by all of this. The only Sept-Nov children I have ever met who required deferral have had significant ASN. January-February boys, absolutely, a few of the December babies. Very few girls have needed to be deferred. My own DC were Sept and Nov and would have been bored silly with another year of nursery.

At the same time as all of this, we've also pushed back the expectations for P1 with the play based learning. It's not the same system as it was. P2 is where it really gets going.

If the government want to make the starting age older, they're going to have to invest in the nurseries and expand them to accommodate the extra year. This must be having a significant knock on effect in many places.

Thank you so much for the responses, this is really really interesting and lots of food for thought.

I'll be honest, I never actually considered deferral for her until quite recently but a few things I've read (on here and elsewhere) have made me start a thinking about it. My main reasons for not considering it were that she seems much more capable and developed than my sons were at three, certainly compared to my eldest, and I'm not sure if another year at nursery would be boring or pointless.

Another factor - I am a summer born English person so was one of the youngest in my year. I never felt any impact of that in any way or at any stage. I knew I was younger obviously, but in terms of academic ability it made no difference.

That said, when I went to university I was 18. I went to uni in Scotland and there were 17 year olds in my year who obviously couldn't go out drinking or have the full 'fresher' experience because they couldn't get into the clubs etc where events were held. Sounds daft to worry about this when my daughter is 3, but this is what would happen to her if she went to Uni.

Another thing, my DS is one of the oldest in his class (March birthday and he's only not the actual oldest because another boy was deferred) and whilst he's not very academic, his social skills were far and away ahead of some of the others in his class, even just in P1.

All this said, I don't actually know anyone who has deferred a November born. My friend is actually sending her daughter to school in August when she only turned 4 in February, which seems crazy to me.

I wouldn't and didn't defer dd (November birthday) or ds (October birthday) although it wasn't really an option tbh.

It was January and February birthdays that could defer and get another year at nursery whereas you had to have a compelling reason to defer birthdays between March and December.

An august born child in Scotland is mid-cohort of the traditional March-Feb. My ds is august born and I wouldn’t defer unless there’s either a speech delay or emotional immaturity or he found sitting/focusing difficult.
However he is p4 and his class has no children born Jan/Feb so they must all be deferred, the average age is increasing.
I would defer a Jan/Feb child and think seriously for Dec or Nov. But no, not August. I think 5 is a good age to start school and 18 a good age to move onto whatever comes next.

I have never known a November born child to be deferred without ASN.

I have one DD born in November, another year of nursery would have bored her. DN was a January birthday and going very well heading into S1.

Scottish parent of three. Mine are spring born so never an issue but my eldest has a very early March birthday and had he been a couple of days early he’d have been February. My thoughts on deferring are:

january/February - defer, no question.
december - probably defer
oct/November - would take advice from teacher but probably not.
september - not

I absolutely wouldn’t be deferring, unless there was a very good reason to do so. With a November birthday she likely won’t be the youngest. If she’s happy and thriving and confident now she will likely be the same at school.

I have a November born three year old and won’t be deferring her. She would go stir crazy with another year in nursery. Her elder sibling is October born and absolutely flew when she started school, it’s been the making of her, and she wasn’t especially confident or self assured to start off with.

I was the youngest in my year by some margin due to a country move and it never affected me, and other than being mildly frustrating for a few weeks, neither did starting Uni at 17, and was long forgotten by the next term.

I didn’t defer my oldest son, early Dec birthday, many years ago he was fine socially and academically. My other son deferred my granddaughter, Feb birthday, so she started last year. She had missed too much nursery time because of Covid restrictions and she need an extra year to be ready.

Rules have changed in Scotland so any child who is 4 on day of school start8ng is entitled to defer. Not many are doing it this yr. You say a further yr of funding is guaranteed - this is NOT true, only those born Dec- Feb who were already entitled to defer will get the extra funded hours. You are likely to need to pay for full yr of nursery as Scot Gov will not fund & unlikely given current council lack of money that they will allow it, you might be able to keep in school nursery but pay privately.

I don’t think I’d like my dc going to uni at 17. My 18th was the week before freshers in early October but unis start much earlier now. I felt a lot younger than the English who had also had gap years and were 19 going on 20. I’d encourage a self-funded gap year of work and life experience.

Absolutely defer if you can. I dont think it makes a huge difference in early years but in late secondary it really does, making course choices, socially, maturity in relationships, even going to uni. A friends daughter went to university age 17 and was in halls and couldn't socialise in pubs and clubs as she wasnt 18. There are loads of things you can do to educate and stimulate your dd in her last uearat nursery if you think she needs it.

My sister deferred her January born child and if mine had been able (born early in year I would have too) I was 41/2 starting school and I struggled massively I was almost a full year younger than some of the other kids and I was dyslexic so struggled with that and I was a very shy quiet child I think an extra year might’ve made a difference so for mine thankfully they were march/June/July and aug so all already 5 starting school anyway

Under the old rules it was Jan/Feb only for auto deferral but now they have changed and more winter babies also being deferred, yes think i would defer.

There are big advantages in secondary to being one of the oldest rather than the very youngest in the year and likely given the new rules she would be one of the very youngest now ( more so than under the old rules).