Would you defer your child? (SCOTLAND)

[mistermagpie]

Sorry about shouting about Scotland, just there's often a lot of confusion on this kind of post, and the Scottish board isn't very busy so I've put my question here!

My daughter is only three, she will be 4 in November. She is due to start school in August 2024 and so will be 4 years and about 9 months old.

Simple question I suppose - would you defer her? And why, if you would. We can, it wouldn't have a huge impact on us in any way really, nursery would continue to be funded and she's happy there.

Relevant info - she's a third child and much more advanced than my other two were at that age (they are boys, might be a reason), she wasn't premature or anything and hasn't had any developmental delays. She's quite bright but behaviour isn't great, although nothing outwith normal three year old stuff.

Glasgow city council info about funding for deferred yr

I'm not sure where you are getting August from? My DD's birthday is in November and I don't think you can defer an August born can you?

Ah this is useful to know, I assumed it was funded for all deferrals.

We live in south Lanarkshire and I've just checked the council website and you do receive an automatic extra funded year here.

@mistermagpie in theory you can defer any child not yet 5 so August 1st till about 15th depending on term dates. It would be extreme but I was reacting to those posters saying always defer any child you can rather than to your specific child.

I think the benefits of deferral depend on the child and if you think she will do fine at school next year I’d send her. I started at 4.5 (February birthday) and did very well at school and have never found it to be a disadvantage. Sure, I couldn’t drink for the first few months at uni but that was hardly a big deal over a 4 year course!

You’ve had all the pros already but I’d also consider the cons of deferral such as that she will be the oldest in year and the pressure that comes from that as even subconsciously more is often expected from visibly older kids. She will potentially be one of the first to hit puberty and may have pressure from her younger peers to buy them alcohol and learn to drive so she can drive her mates around. She will potentially have to be in different groups for extra curricular activities, football is the main one as they go strictly by year born but even things like girl guides she’d potentially be in say brownies when her school friends were still in rainbows.

This is an interesting thread. I have also considered deferral for my December born baby. I wondered if the rule change (children who are not yet 5 by school start date) would make a difference to peoples choices.

whether or not the place would be funded would likely be a big factor for most.

There could potentially be even bigger age gaps between children in class years. Say someone chooses not to defer a February born child who’s 4.5 starting school but someone else does defer a September born child so they would be almost 6 when they start. That’s a big age gap for the same school year. I think if more people start deferring who are born before January then habits may change for a lot of people.

I had wondered if these rule changes were brought in because the SNP wanted to raise the school starting age to 6 and this is there way of trying to achieve that.

I completely understand deferral for Jan/Feb birthdays and this has been the norm for many years. However for the p1 at the school my kids go to we now have December and November birthday deferrals. It seems that parents are obsessed with their child not being the youngest in the class. However… someone needs to be the youngest!

With the new Scottish rules on deferral I think it will end up with affluent families deferring more and more and the less affluent families always having the youngest in the class (as not all councils will fund the additional nursery year). Which doesn’t feel like a great outcome tbh.

The automatic extra year of funding for deferred children is for any who are still 4 at the start of the school year. From this year onwards. It used to only be for December -feb.

The date on that is from 2021 not 2023

I’m a primary teacher in Scotland and I wouldn’t defer her if she was mine. I fully believe in deferring them and have taught so many P1 classes with kids in it that should have been deferred. I would say on the whole girls cope much better than boys do as the majority that I would have chosen to defer were boys. If she’s almost 5 and there’s no real issues I wouldn’t see any need to.

If you did she could potentially end up being particularly high ability for the year group she’s in. Obviously this is better than being lower ability but I wouldn’t want my child to be in this situation either. I’ve found the very able ones can be bored easily (as certain things do have to be taught in P1, even though some of the children might already know it). I’ve also had years of children announcing to the whole room ‘I’ve done this’ or just being a bit patronising towards the other kids in a way because they obviously know what they’re doing when the younger kids don’t. It’s a hard one but in your situation I’d definitely say don’t defer unless you notice any issues closer to the time 😊

Yes and the child will be a whole year old by P2 . Op there are not negatives to deferrring let you child be little and learn through play for as long as they can and have an extra year before adult responsibilities kick in. It is basically an extra year of being a child.

Absolutely not! I'm Scottish, but live in England and my DD had been four for just over a month when she started school, so I could have deferred her, but I'm so glad I didn't. She doesn't have any SEN, is social and has thrived at school. Her reading has come on incredibly well, which I know wouldn't have been the case if I had deferred. She is so so delighted she can read some words. I realise every child is different, but unless there's emotional and developmental delays, I wouldn't. It won't be long until she turns 5 after she starts.

there are not negatives to deferring

I think it's going to have to be more nuanced than that if it's being opened up SO much.

There are negatives to being the oldest, as others have pointed out.

My children were so ready to leave the nursery environment. 4 years in the 3-5 room would be stifling. The removal of teachers from the nurseries also really isn't helping children get ready for school, especially in context of 100% free play.

Nursery education is getting so much poorer than what it was, and I really don't think 'ah, just have an extra year' is a viable policy.

I had two boys, eldest with a March birthday, one youngest February. The eldest spent a lot of primary being bored and stroppy as he wasn’t being stretched. Partly on the back of that, and on the advice of nursery, we didn’t defer the youngest. Not a problem socially or academically at primary.

I did wonder how it would impact secondary as he would have been taking Nat 5s at 15 and Highers at 16, but we moved to England and he automatically dropped back a year. He is a smart and enquiring lad so I suspect he would have been fine, and a gap year between AHs and uni would have been a good option.

I’ve a December born p1 in Scotland and don’t regret NOT deferring her one iota. I think if I’d kept her in nursery (preschool) she would be utterly bored and just-year olds seem like babies in comparison…. So had I deferred her I suspect I’d have regretted.

She was totally ready for school and I was confident about this… she goes to a very small village school with small class sizes etc. But if you don’t think your child is ready then defer.

*Just-three year olds

I didn't defer ds1 (mid Nov birthday) and it didn't occur to me to do so - it wasn't really so much of a thing 16 years ago unless Jan/Feb born or with a significant delay (eg friends deferred their daughter who was October born and had a significant speech delay).

Now though, he's going into 6th year and I feel like he could have done with the maturity that the extra year might have given him now. He was fine in primary.

It's swings and roundabouts though. If he'd been born in mid August it wouldn't cross my mind and that's only 3 months older.

Please read to the end.
No. I absolutely wouldn't. I've moved to Scotland and imo they start too late here or rather, finish too late in P7.
My major reason is people look at when their little girl is little. Of course you do, you feel protective. But now I see girls in my sons school that have been deferred/held back. Girls that would be in the 1st or 2nd year seniors in England and now have to cope with periods and puberty for years in Scottish schools all in primary school toilets, no sanitary bins, no private cubicals. They say they will accommodate but the girls struggle because this just means during their period they have to walk to the staff toilets and the whole thing is awful for them and never spoken about. For this reason I'd never defer my child.
I also struggle that the boys who have been held back are now nearly 13 and sexually very aware still in Primary. It's not a good thing.

I've worked in many primary schools in different local authorities in the west of Scotland and all upper toilets (P4-7) are split female and male toilets and female toilets have sanitary facilities. I've had girls in my school start their period as early as P5 (10 years old) and not once have they had to be escorted or use staff facilities. If that's your experience then I'd seriously consider contacting your local authority, I'm genuinely horrified at that!

Absolutely defer. When she's 14 her classmates could be turning 16......

I've never met anyone who regretted deferring.

But quite a few who wished they had.

That being said November is at the older end of the range.

My DS's both have November birthdays and I deferred them both (18 and 15 now) Never had a single regret. Much better for them to be making course choices and taking exams when that extra year more mature.

Of course the provide for periods in primary school.

In our primary

All the P6s and P7s have been provided with starter packs.

There are sanitary bins and free sanitary products in all the toilets.

As for your final comment - don't be daft.

I think only you will know I'm in Scotland daughter born October so similar ages and wasn't given the option however it wasn't needed. I think now you are allowed to if birthday after august in Scotland xxx