Normal for couples with young DC to be unhappy and have little sex?

[icecreamshopper]

Husband and I are having Relate therapy. He is deeply unhappy with the amount and the quality of sex we are having. Our child is 3. For the first while after the birth sex was painful for me and then I had to wait for a gynae referral to finally get seen. This took 18 months. Alongside that I had a back injury caused by lifting my child, and I found it all a struggle (new motherhood, juggling part-time work with childcare and waiting for a nursery place plus baby during pandemic, no support etc). We were having sex since then but usually once a week or so and always missionary.

Throughout those 3 years he was fully supportive and never complained. He supported me and never pressured me. But he came to me this Spring and said he couldn't go in with our sex life as it is, and feels that now my gynae issue is resolved and child is no longer a baby we need to work to get back on track.

In the meantime DH works long hours in a high-octane type job. He earns a decent wage.

He is very good with DC and helpful doing things like bins and dishwasher but I definitely carry the mental load. I work p-t and have DC p-t. He does stuff round the house when he's not working but has to be asked or reminded about some household chores, and some stuff he literally never does eg clean bathroom.

Like some men, it seems his standards are just lower / different eg he would happily relax in a messy living room, or not be concerned about dusting ever.

Do we women lower our standards? Obviously there's a huge patriarchal dynamic here. My husband earns quite a lot and he would not bat an eyelid if I said I'm never cooking / cleaning again, and just outsourced it all. He would be happy for me to do that. Should we just do that and try to bring back the harmony?

I've come to the realisation that I've put others' needs first too often to the point where it's become second nature and I can't even say what I want anymore. I'm going to organise a weekend away with a friend as DH has never had DC alone overnight before.

I'm not sure my sex-drive matches his but is that just because I'm knackered and carrying the mental load?

One thing we've disagreed on is that he didn't think it's normal for sex life to be vanilla / minimal but I've said I'm sure most couples go through this with young DC (having read Mumsnet). Is this the case?

I've read the other thread about shit husbands with interest. I wouldn't go that far with DH as he's never told me to do more around the house or anything, and he's perfectly happy for me to do less and for us both to outsource or have lower standards! It's just different I guess.

Anyway I know I'm conflating two issues, the sex and the mental load but for me they are related. He says every aspect of our life is great except sex, I say I'm not satisfied in other areas (mental load and worrying about my career / where I'm going after maternity break and Covid impacting my career).

Honestly are there any people here who can relate? I'm sure someone will say LTB but I don't feel it's as simple as that.

I think what you've described or a version of it is very common. You have a few of the classic elements combined in yours- mental load, sex after childbirth/ with young kids at home, maternal career penalty, gendered roles, differing standards.

I agree it's not as simple as LTB. Also probably you'd end up here again with your next partner after the honeymoon period wore off.

The mental load of is the worst of it for me, which causes resentment which is the worlds most effective anti-aphrodisiac.

Tell him exactly why you don't feel in the mood.

Tell him it's because your body is exhausted it's hard to be aroused when it just needs rest.

Tell him you need him to pick up some slack or hire a cleaner.

Tell him he needs to date you.

I can relate. And it's also the mundane routine of family life that gets me down. I've recently started counselling as I've realised just how unhappy I am, and one thing that I'm learning through that is that I've been a people pleaser all my life, which is really affecting my mental health now.

But he's said he's happy to outsource and she said that she has very high standards cleaning wise.

I think ultimately we need to focus on what is best for us and our family, which is your case is a good relationship with your husband (divorce is bad for everyone, particularly kids).

1. So long as you can afford it, outsource as much as possible, especially cleaning wise
2. Consider putting DC in nursery for a half day on your day off to see if you can use it to get your nails done or do the extra cleaning
3. Focus on spending time as a family at the weekend not cleaning
4. Schedule some date nights with your OH and get a baby sitter.

MN is so incredibly one sided. You yourself say he has been understanding for 3-years. It's perfectly reasonable for him to want to get things back on track. What does the mental load have to do with missionary only sex?? It suggests that you are making minimal effort

Sorry @icecreamshopper

Dh & I were/are the opposite

Obviously there have been times when we have had sex less often (eg sickness, and I say this as someone who’s had no end of gyne problems) but we both have made sure we keep our sex life active - even when the kids were smaller.

But I completely understand where you’re coming from, as I do around 90% of the mental load - which is draining, but works for us both as dh when he can picks up the slack and I admit he does more that 90% if the housework.

This isn’t a LTB because he doesn’t sound like a B.

What was your sex life like before DC?

In my marriage we’re very happy with vanilla sex once or twice a week and tbh from what I know from childless friends in long term relationships that seems pretty normal for them too.

We do it much less often in the evenings now as we’re more tired so rely more on just happening to wake up before DC but it generally works out. That might change when DC moves from a cot to a bed.

I would definitely get a cleaner if I was you OP. You can afford it and it will help lessen the load on you and may help your marriage get back on track, why wouldn't you?

I do think it's very normal for your sex life to take a hit while you have young DC. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't try to do something about it rather than just accept it.

Having a weekend away with a friend is a great idea too.

I find cleaners difficult as I rush round tidying before they come and then feel self-conscious when they are here! But I guess that's the flip side!

I think once you get used to having one you get past the feeling of self consciousness!

I'm a bit the same, so I arrange for them to come when I am about to leave for work

Yep - we are in a similar space. 3-4 times a month with missionary sex. DH working hard and earning more. Me carrying the family stuff plus a career as well.
The difference for us is that we can't afford to outsource. If I could I absolutely would because I know that the main thing that brings my sex drive back is having time to myself to do things I love.
It takes a while for the drive to come back though. My DH seems to think that I can just have one night out and then boom! In reality it takes a while for me to find myself again.

Get the cleaner

Once a week sex is prettty normal especially when you are exhausted from juggling

Ultimately - Your DH needs to make changes so that you actively want more frequent/more adventurous sex. He should not expect you to do it just because he wants to. That would definitely be an ugh for me.

What do you think would make you want sex more ? More sleep? More help? Exercise? Feeling more connected to DH ie more conversation, more time together without DC? Toys so you orgasm quicker/more reliably? Have a think and then explain this to DH.

Completely understand where you’re coming from.

Id say if you can outsource the cleaning/washing/ironing then do it.

I know for me personally I feel this engrained need to be able to do it all. I should be able to do the housework, work P/T and look after my baby when in reality it’s friggen hard!! So if you can outsource then do it and relieve a bit of the stress and hopefully in turn it will lead to more quality time for you and husband.

I can't speak for other people, but I can relate to you what you are saying.

Sex is the very bottom of my To Do list
(I could take it or leave it; preferably leave it tbh) and yes, I find ig goes very much hand in hand with the mental load. I see it as just one more job I have to do / one more persons needs I have to see to and it just bores / irritates me.

However, like you, my husband is a good man, so it's not something I want to be a problem.

If I were you, yes, I would absolutely outsource everything you can.

Sorry, I don't really have an answer. But I know my DP and I resent each other - he resents me for not enough sex, I resent him for not pulling his weight, taking his share of the mental load.

But we don't want to split up so are muddling along the best we can.

It's a tough one, and I know where you are coming from.

Thanks @wineschmine that sounds exactly as I feel!

I think your DH sounds like a pretty good egg, all things considered.

Please take him up on the offer to outsource as much as possible - I would get a cleaner and maybe pay for a half day of nursery on one of your days off so you can have a few hours to yourself - nap, go out for coffee, go to the gym, watch a boxset, have a bath - whatever you like.

I would also make sure you're both being as efficient as possible - so online shopping rather than in person, paying everything by DD where possible so you're not trying to remember payments. Get reminders set up for things like MOT's, services and appointments so that you just sort it when it pops up and don't have so much to keep track of. It makes so much difference.

I think it is incredibly common and as women we are told we can have it all but the reality is we are exhausted martyring ourselves for trying, putting everyone first as you have said.

I agree with everyone else, throw money at it. Use extra childcare, it does not make you a bad person to need time for yourself. Right now it doesn't seem like you do have time for yourself. So claim it.

Do you want a cleaner or someone who is more of a cleaner/tidy upper? More like a Mother's Help? Lots of MNetters have posted on here saying they would pay someone to come in, clear the breakfast pots away, unload the dishwasher, repack it, maybe put a load of laundry on. Seriously takes far less time if you are not exhausted and don't have a child to look after at the same time. Some cleaners will do other things rather than just clean but you could start off with a cleaner. And stop feeling weird about it, see it as benefiting the family.

When I worked part time Ds's nursery only did full days so I used that half day to blitz my house. I had 4 hours as I was already up and dressed and at first it was very difficult but the more I did it the easier it became and I actually had less to do and I had time to sit down, chill and just not feel like there was still stuff to do.

Re chores, I know you are going to feel like this is adding to your mental load but what chores would you want your Dh to do and agree to what standard would be okay? Does your Dh cook? Both of you discuss dividing the week up with who is making dinner on what days if that is possible. And most importantly you get a lie in where he gets up with his child and takes care of them, solely on their own. He can take them out but they are not to disturb you. And you, you lie in that bed, you sleep and if you can't you don't get up, you read, scroll your phone and you set this morning as a Daddy and child morning. Dh and I did this on a weekend, even when I became a SAHM. He had Saturday I had Sunday. He has a very close bond with his children, even if he was going to the shops, took a child for one on one, even tip runs.

If you can get a babysitter then try to do date nights, be out the house at least, walk together, do the things you used to do before having children. Motherhood does shift our focus as we have someone else to think about, but you also need to think about yourself. It isn't being selfish, it is important for you to have time away, book your girls's weekend away, claim the time for yourself.

You don't have to tidy up beforehand and you don't have to feel self conscious. You are paying someone to do a job for you. I have had cleaners for years and years. I pay a decent amount and I respect them for what they do. I'm providing them with a good job and they are providing me with a great service. Its win-win. My current cleaner has been working for me for the last 14 years, she is one of my favourite people

You say your husband has a high octane job? I don't know why but Mumsnet is never sympathetic towards men with 'high octane' jobs but are hugely sympathetic to women's 'mental loads' . I don't know why because I would much rather do the mental load stuff than the full on being employed stuff. At least with 'mental load' stuff you are your own boss.

I think it's fairly normal to feel a bit touched-out when you have little kids.

We used to get a babysitter once a week and go out without the kids when they were little. It was brilliant, sometimes we were exhausted but still went out. It was a little bit of us time. We were fortunate that we could afford it. However we probably saved money doing that than having therapy

I have two DC, aged 5 and 2. I can count on one hand the times DH and I have had sex since number 2 was born. Like yours, my DH was very understanding about it, but about a month ago he said he wanted to work on rekindling the sex life. Fortunately this seems to have coincided with DC2 sleeping through most of the time, so I can already feel my mojo starting to come back.

These early years are honestly horrific. I've never felt so exhausted, burnt out, and unattractive. But I think there's finally light at the end of the tunnel at last!

Listen to the recent Dirty Mother Pukka podcast with Louise Boyce on marital sex

One thing we've disagreed on is that he didn't think it's normal for sex life to be vanilla / minimal but I've said I'm sure most couples go through this with young DC (having read Mumsnet). Is this the case?

Reading Mumsnet will give you a biased view, in that it's a self-selecting sample. After all, there's really no reason to go on a forum and start threads titled "We've got young DC, our sex life is fine, and life's actually OK at the moment."

You are both being reasonable in your own way. Now, with the help of the therapy, you can identify the things you want to change and put in place a plan to change them - one step at a time.

You can hire a cleaner to tidy up as well as clean. It’s not the most efficient use of their time and skills but if you’re up front about what you want, and pay fairly for the time it’s not a problem.

It’s only a problem when the cleaner either feels disrespected, or you’re expecting more cleaning achieved in the time given. Just talk through the expectations to start.

As for feeling awkward - do you feel weird about getting a plumber in? Or an electrician? Or a painter? I’m going to gently suggest that feeling awkward about paying another woman a fair wage to do a respectable job, that you could do yourself, is more about internalised misogyny than anything else. Shake that off, and prioritise the things that are important.

But moving on from that - a different question is whether you want to rekindle your sex life with your dh? What are your needs and desires (sex and otherwise) right now.

Hire a cleaner. I'm PT bad husband works long hours and is paid very well. I still have toddler at home on the days I'm not working and we have a lovely lady clean once a week for two hours. Means I can enjoy my DC on my day off and jist concentrate on laundry, cooking, too clean and life admin.

I’m typing this point as a separate post because I don’t want it to get lost in other issues., but the word vanilla is standing out to me in your op.

Wanting more intimacy and sex is a completely different thing to wanting to introduce kink practices with a partner that isn’t intrinsically interested.

Two separate issues.

This! This! Absolutely spot on advice