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Original poster

Can I report a church? Who to?

97 replies

BlueSquirrelTurnip · 26/06/2023 20:16

I went to a new church yesterday with my kids and I was very upset by the message.
The whole sermon was based around giving (money) - specifically giving MORE than you can afford.

The church want to fundraise for a brand new building. And the vicar said - “don’t just give what you can afford. That’s not spirituality challenging. You need to give more than that.”

He also said something like: “if you are struggling for money, then you should give money to the church. God will bless you abundantly and you will get more money back.”

Aside from the liturgical arguments with the above (big eyeroll from this lapsed Catholic/sometime Anglican), I’m furious that in a cost of living crisis so much pressure was being put on people to give more money than they can afford . And all just for a church building! (If it had been for food for the hungry, I might have been slightly more understanding)

I want to do something. Can anyone think of what I can do? Is there someone I can complain to about this?

OP posts:
MuggleMe · 26/06/2023 22:13

I do actually think the EA would be interested.

Reallybadidea · 26/06/2023 22:15

Although I have heard the same teaching in a west London CofE church, although some years back tbf. My boyfriend at the time gave 10% of his income to the church off the back of it and then fiddled his work expenses to be able to survive 🙄

PaigeMatthews · 26/06/2023 22:16

Stop going to random churches.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Philosophy & religion
NotMeNoNo · 26/06/2023 22:18

Evangelical Alliance isn’t a denomination it’s an umbrella organisation which a lot of denominations are connected to.

if it’s a denomination it should be on website or obvious from name: Baptist, Methodist etc (sounds unlikely to be either of those notoriously sensible groups). There is usually some kind of regional leader.

it may be a completely independent church in which case just vote with your feet.

TheLongpigs · 26/06/2023 22:19

Evangelical Alliance isn't a domination, it's a group that churches and individuals can be a member of, so it wouldn't be the place to go to.

HeyThereDelilahhh · 26/06/2023 22:23

FYI Evangelical Alliance isn’t a domination or a type of church, it’s made up of hundreds of organisations, churches and people.

So you’d be better still finding out the exact denomination, or also check if the church have a “statement of faith” on their website.. that will give you more info about their background/beliefs. Like a previous poster said, it’s sounds like they preach prosperity gospel. You can also contact the church directly to ask for more info and/or feedback about the sermon itself.

ContractQuestion · 26/06/2023 22:26

I found this in a New Frontiers (nfi) as they used to be known. The Stoneleigh rallies? I feel awful that I was an 19 year old student in an abusive situation giving away money I couldn't spare 🙈

Original poster
BlueSquirrelTurnip · 26/06/2023 22:33

BeverlyHa · 26/06/2023 21:23

He is a doing a huge mess up of various topics. LOL, even if you complain, to who? The church of England are billionaires, they have pensions for their vicars and billions in invested money in all sorts of businesses.

  1. He has messed up the message about giving money for ministry, which is our duty as believers. - this should be from the heart, read all Paul's epistles to understand how much....this is not important, but that comes from the heart and no, Paul says the opposite: that one should give so the other has but we have also
  2. This vicar is using prosperity gospel heresy type of preaching. God's Word never guarantees how much the return in money will be. There are Scriptures that when we give , we will receive three time or more the measure we give, but this is not exactly verse about money, but about studying God's word
  3. Sowing and reaping. Do not give with hatred because someone harrassed you from a pulpit, God won't like it and you will reap more uneasy feelings towards churches
  4. The Philppians were poor and gave as much they could for the church in Jerusalem. Paul never told them how much, he asked churches for donations but in a more general and convincing way, rather than what this vicar said.
  5. Church buildings in the UK are very expensive, actually they cost about a million to repair, rebuild, build, etc.....
  6. Don't be offended, it is just a silly messed up chap who does not know well his theology. Stay there and use their kids facilities and if you still dislike him, go to a non denominational free evangelical church - they are awesome. I go to one and noone ever asked me for money. But someone last year left them few millions in a will. God works best when we just trust Him.

I found this really interesting, thanks

OP posts:
Bunbuns3 · 26/06/2023 22:35

Can't you just leave them to it? If you already claim to be Catholic and also Anglican why do you need to dabble with even more denominations? The Catholic church never ask for a precise amount when donating and I don't think Anglicans do either.

Leave the crackpot denominations to it, you won't change a thing. You don't like it, don't go back simples! And stop switching religions when it suits , who are you Meghan Markle?

howmanyhobbies · 26/06/2023 22:40

OP, I think you’re fighting a losing battle. But your best bet is probably to ask the pastor of that church for a meeting and tell him or her your thoughts. If you complain to the pastor’s boss it may not be taken seriously or passed on.

Mariposista · 26/06/2023 22:40

Boomboxinmyattic · 26/06/2023 22:04

Report them to god?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA I'm sitting with MIL who is a C of E vicar and she is laughing her head off at this one.
She also says this church should remember Mark 12:

Jesus was at the temple with the disciples. Here he witnessed something which he used to teach the disciples about giving.
He sat across from the treasury of the temple and watched many rich people put in large sums of money.
Then a poor widow came along and put in two small copper coins.
Jesus teaches the disciples that the woman gave more than the rich.

They should not be bullying you to part with a particular sum of money. A small donation that you can afford - lovely. Far more valuable is your time and what you can give to the church (perhaps you have a talent for making cakes, listening, doing flowers etc, that all builds community.
I her church, the collection basket is covered so nobody can see how much you are putting in - of even if you are just pretending to.

Bikechic · 26/06/2023 22:41

I would start with the trustees of the church itself. I know you think you wont get very far, but no church wants new visitors To the church To be put off like that. After that there's not much you can do. At least addressing the trustees means it's more than just the minister and it will have to be discussed.

Fizbosshoes · 26/06/2023 23:00

I went to an anglican church years ago and the church had, I think, about 15 members of staff but they wanted another and we were all advised to give generously to fund getting another minister. The vicar told us all how much he donated per month to the church, insinuating that was a suitable/minimum amount to give.... but never acknowledged that he didn't have the 2 biggest expenses that most people had - a mortgage and commuting costs (the vicarage was absolutely huge and probably worth over £1m 20 years ago)

guineacup · 26/06/2023 23:14

I'm glad I'm not involved in any church.

Christianity is toxic in my opinion...

MysteryBelle · 26/06/2023 23:23

Most ‘preachers’ or ‘pastors’ who do this are conmen looking to line their pockets. I realize I just said something very apparent that everybody knows. So yes, op, I agree that he should not be soliciting money from congregants that they cannot afford. In fact, no one should give him a penny.

Because what he’s doing is taking things, and twisting them, that Jesus Christ actually said, yes, Jesus said things very like what your conman said, but Jesus said it (I think, obviously I can’t speak for Jesus Christ) to highlight the rich frauds who gave a bunch of money but nothing that really hit them much in the pocketbook:

‘For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want cast in all she had, even her whole living.’ Jesus, Mark 12:44 Douay Rheims
And Paul said:‘Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. And God is able to bless you abundantly, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work. As it is written:“They have freely scattered their gifts to the poor;their righteousness endures forever.” Saint Paul, 2nd letter to the Corinthians 9:6-9 NIV

Malarandras · 26/06/2023 23:31

If the church is a registered charity you could report to the charity regulator. I am guessing you are in England and I don’t know what the English regulator is called but you could Google easily enough. If not a charity then all I can suggest is you find another Church - this one doesn’t seem part of a hierarchy so nowhere to report them to.

KnickerlessParsons · 26/06/2023 23:35

Both the Catholic Church and Church of England are rolling in money so they have a damn cheek IMO.

whataboutme77 · 26/06/2023 23:44

Is it New Frontiers international? It sounds like their sort of approach 😬

mrwalkensir · 26/06/2023 23:49

Not religious myself, but all my loveliest friends and relations who are, are Methodists...

alexdgr8 · 27/06/2023 01:24

i'm surprised that you're surprised really.
this is nothing new.
surely you've heard of this sort of thing before.
sounds quite naive to think there's any point in complaining.
just avoid them.

WarmBeerAndSandwiches · 27/06/2023 01:59

Gizzey · 26/06/2023 22:10

Churches are like this all over the world. Horrible exploitation of the poor. I’m not surprised.

Agreed. I had a relative who was ‘befriended’ by volunteers at their Church as they started showing signs of dementia which meant they became very paranoid about their own family who they had been really close to up until this point and who were completely blindsided. The volunteers and the church ended up in my relatives will for huge amounts of money but had nothing to do with them after a brief flurry of interest. My relative cut their family out of their will after another member of the church who was a solicitor drew up a new will. This was only discovered after my relative lost capacity (both church and volunteers were long gone by then). My relative left a note saying they didn’t want the will to stand but it was too late by then. Their family complained to the church and raised it as a safeguarding issue. The church pretended to play along all wide-eyed and innocent, pretending they were worried from a safeguarding point of view until they had their lawyers look over the whole thing and realised how much money was involved, then they denied there was a safeguarding issue and conspired with the volunteers to keep hold of the money. The whole thing was appalling especially as they claim to take safeguarding very seriously. It was one of the two main churches in this country as well.

mathanxiety · 27/06/2023 04:36

KnickerlessParsons · 26/06/2023 23:35

Both the Catholic Church and Church of England are rolling in money so they have a damn cheek IMO.

Unfortunately for you and the OP, the church in question isn't either RC or CoE.

OP, the Evangelical Alliance is an umbrella organisation encompassing many different self proclaimed evangelical congregations. You need to narrow it down to the specific denomination or congregation. I agree with others that this preacher sounds like a prosperity gospel conman.

Along with others, I'd encourage you to stick to mainline Christian denominations and avoid the 'rough' (as in golf).

marmaladeslade · 27/06/2023 05:12

Happy Clappy's. Hillsong
Move on

Oblomov23 · 27/06/2023 05:47

Reporting to God. Grin Laughing here, sorry Op.

sashh · 27/06/2023 05:57

I would suspect if they are doing this they may not be completing their tax returns correctly. You could report this to HMRC. I don't know if they would do anything.