I've been cut out of the works night out.

[Queeny5]

I've name changed for this!

How would this make you feel?

For background, I'm an operations manager and the only woman in my team. I've been doing this job for around 10 years in various Trades. I work in a team of 7 men.

There has been quite a few problems which has lead me to look for another job. I'm basically treated like an assistant and a maid. I've had comments aimed at me like "this is a man's place" man's this man's that. I'm treated inadequate like some dumb woman. I ideally I wanted to avoid leaving without another job but this has just pushed me to want to just leave on the spot.

I was chatting to one of the men about a project I've just won and I just glanced at his screen and saw a WhatsApp group called "works night out" the message on there said "don't tell queeny5". The night out is apparently planned for this weekend.

I'm just fucking done with it. I have never experienced this level of shitty treatment for being a woman in this industry. I have always been treated with respect but this place is horrible for it. I can stand my own ground but I'm just done. I just want to quit right now and be done with it. Am I overreacting here? I feel shit. Why are people still going with these outdated views?!

Do you have legal expenses insurance as part of your household insurance policy? If so, that would probably cover the cost of getting legal advice

Yes I have this with my bank.

It's not the point of the night out, it's that they have purposely excluded me for no other reason other than the obvious, that I'm a woman.

Yes, I get that. And a solicitor could offer advice about potential remedies

@Queeny5 honestly would document everything and raise a grievance. They will be forced to do something. If they don’t then you raise a case for constructive dismissal. It is a hassle but honestly they need taking down a peg or 2. They shouldn’t be going on in 2023.

Has it ever occurred to you that maybe, just maybe people just don’t like you?

I'm going to give them a call on my way home today and see if there's anything I can do about this. I have around 3 months of wages saved up. But I didn't want to leave without anything lined up.

Although you have only been there for 3 months, you can raise a claim for constructive dismissal if you have suffered a detriment as a result of a protective characteristic (gender). However, you do need to have raised this with the Company. Send an email to your HR outlining what has gone on and se what their response is. When you resign you need to say the reason for leaving is due to the discrimination.

Not clear from your post but are you their manager/boss? Maybe they don’t want to have a night out with their superior there.

I am operations Manager and they are project Managers. I am more senior but I'm not viewed that way.

That's no excuse for not inviting her to the work's night out and for calling her their assistant and trying to get her to do menial tasks.

After only 3 months it sounds as though they haven't even tried to get to know the OP so how can they know if they like her or not ?

OP, this is discrimination. You only working there for three months is irrelevant; discrimination is a day one offence. The fact this was a non work event doesn't matter - they all work at the same place as you. Telling you to do menial tasks which they class as female chores is misogynistic and discriminatory.

Check your work policies. See what the process is for grievances/complaints and raise one with HR. Don't leave at this point; ACAS will advise you that you have to give the employer time to remedy this.

If you give good evidence, dates/times, HR will panic. This is bad news for them.

Don't think about constructive dismissal - it's not worth it. You would have to walk out of work after a defining incident that made it untenable to remain at work any longer after the moment whatever it was happened. Plus extremely difficult because of your short length of service - you would get practivally nothing if awarded.

Discrimination is the way to go. They are doing it and should be ashamed. It's sexist and unacceptable and they deserve their arses to be hauled over the coals and have to be answerable.

I'd not have wanted to go or have gone anyway, so I wouldn't be hurt, but I would be angry. More angry about the build up than the night out, but I get its the icing on the cake. Move on. You sound like you are qualified for better anyway, so their loss not yours. Make sure you tell them why during your exit interview.

I had this years ago, it makes you feel utter shite, constant stress, I feel for you. In my situation a discrimination claim would be hard to prove and onerous. You are slightly different as the night out is evidence.

I recall going to a dinner after a meeting, walking up to the bar where the team was and my manager saying I don’t know how you dare show your face around men this competent, smirking and turning his back on me, I was beyond shocked, I was actually the capable one, genuinely. And they fucking hated me for it. Every single time I was successful they hated me even more. They kept trying to sabotage me, one even went to my clients and told them not to deal with me any more. Fortunately they complained,,the managers response, do it back. I mean wtaf

the manager justwanted to suck up to his team as they were brutal and he wanted to be accepted, so he joined them in bullying me.

I found another job and left. I’m now much more senior than any of those men, every could be, they were all mid to late fifties and I was about your age. It always struck me these men had wives, daughters, and this is how they behaved.

consuder if you should go for discrimination, by rights you should and make them pay, but the sad truth is it is painful, all consuming and can impact future jobs if you lose. But get applying for jobs, get out of there. Get out fast and don’t look back

You seem fucking tremendous, with words of wisdom like that.
Bet OP wishes she was as popular as you.

You must raise this with your direct manager and HR.

if this was a night out will mates from work and you’re excluded that’s one thing (and utter shite). But this is a works sanctioned team day/night out that you have been excluded from and one which comes will an authorised day off work. Somewhere their trip needed to have been authorised.

I would suggest getting hold of your bullying and harassment policy (exclusion is a bullying technique) and note down all the mysoginistic / gender specific comments that are made to you (by whom, context and when).

they seem like idiots so it wouldn’t surprise me if you have some emails with similar content. If not, next time they say it ask them to repeat that in writing to you…

build your evidence and submit a grievance- to be honest I’d submit a grievance on the basis of the work night out alone if it is truly an organisational supported thing.

I don't really care to be honest. We are all adults, not school children. Sometimes we have to work with people we don't like. That doesn't give people the right to be horrible.

Just to update, I've put my notice in with immediate effect this morning. I couldn't do this anymore. I've ignored their calls and I've walked away from it. I did get a god awful email that they wanted me at the office today to speak to them, I've said no to that too.

I have spoken to ACAS and I will see what can be done, if anything. I'll be going on glassdoor also so no other women has to deal with that.

I've been offered a role with an old employer, which I will probably take. But I am taking a few days to have abit of a break with the kids!

Cha-ching! All jokes aside, this is shitty, misogynistic behaviour and you’d be well within your rights to raise a grievance.

Honestly OP I would contact HR and management and say the reason you are leaving is due to the sex based discrimination and that you are seeking advice from ACAS. They will absolutely shit themselves.

If report it to your line manager and then leave. It's sex discrimination.

Hold fire, don't do anything rash, play the long game,. Discuss it with a solicitor, understand what you need to evidence your claim. Keep your head down and collect enough evidence and then nail the company. You may need to submit a formal complaint to HR and give them a chance to respond in order to follow correct procedure.

I've sent some emails to ACAS. One of them states that if we open our legs, we get what we want! So they can't worm their way out of it. I've got so many WhatsApp and emails where they have said comments like this. The man at ACAS was disgusted in the emails I'd sent him. It got to the point where I just could not sit there for another day, taking the same degrading comments.

HR is no use, I tried months ago. It about 1 person doing it who is a guy too. I tried to hold out as much as I could but it was just draining me. I have never had to experience this before. I didn't even know this attitude still existed!

Take them to the cleaners OP.

This, surely?? And why would op want to go on the lash with a bunch of dicks who don't behave well at work and she doesn't even like?

I'm stunned someone actually wrote that in an email. Sounds like you have more than enough evidence and if you already raised it with HR that angle is covered. Go teach them a lesson they won't forget. You deserve every penny you get!