Menopause and older women in the workplace

[BansheeofInisherin]

I know this belongs in the Menopause section, but it's not very busy, so I am putting it here.

I am 51, going through a difficult menopause with bastard fibroids and all the rest of it. Just started HRT; too early to see any effect. Have a hysterectomy scheduled later this year after Mirena did not suit me. Lots of anxiety, little sleep, terrible flooding every month which soaks through my pads.

Anyway, workwise, I am not at my best. But I feel reluctant to talk about this in the workplace as older women problems seem taboo in a way. I work in a very young environment because I switched careers after being an SAHM.

There's lots of talk about mental health, social anxiety, maternity issues, LGBT issues, transpeople issues, POC issues ( I am one myself) but hardly a whisper about menopause and the accomodations needed.

How I feel is like getting old is the last taboo. I feel like there is a sort of veiled contempt of older women- boomer!- which would not be tolerated about any other community. Some especially liberal young people start by falling over themselves to treat me well because of my Asian name, then when they meet me, I detect a sort of vague sentiment of " Oh well, she's only a boomer and well past it."

Am I imagining all this?

Thanks for all the thoughts on this. I may speak to HR about more flexible working and avoiding certain types of situations if things don't improve for me. @ShesSingingThatSongAgain I didn't even notice your mistake!

Just to give an example, I was meant to go away with a friend this weekend (much younger). But have got up at 4 am finding my period has come on a week early- i guess because of the HRT- and very heavy/painful. I think I am going to have to cancel as it's a walking trip, and I feel so awkward about it. If it was a work thing, I would feel even worse and unprofessional.

I have always been very reliable- I never cancel ever- and I hate this new flaky me who is a prisoner of her own body.

workwise, I am not at my best. But I feel reluctant to talk about this in the workplace

So I'm a cow but I can live with that.

There's someone at in my office who always has issues. Every day a new list of stuff, parking disputes, promotion prospects, company gossip & business financial woes: long list of varied frustrations. We don't work together, just share office space (8 total desks in there, but company is contracting so half-empty). I don't mind a bit of office gossip but It's got to the point that I brace myself for their daily outburst, sometimes very emotional. Put on my headphones & try to tune out & ignore.

I don't want to hear about it. I don't care that much. I wish them well but almost every sodding day they had emotional outbursts. Ugh. Please spare me. They seem more stable in recent weeks (maybe they got some medication). Hallelullah.

That outbursting office mate happens to be a young male but tbh, I feel same about OP's situation. I don't want to hear ongoing problem updates, we didn't end up together to be friends. I wouldn't relate to a long list of menop issues, either. At best I'd be listening out of mild curiousity. Find your quiet support however you need it but please don't impose on random others.

I meant talk about it to HR, not really impose on my co-workers. Did you mean you can't live with that, though, judging by the rest of your post?!

Op, I feel like you are my twin! I completely understand where you are coming from. I feel like some posters here have misunderstood the point and think some of us menopausal ladies want to sit around all day talking about our symptoms and how bad we feel. Erm, no! What I would like is a bit of compassion and understanding from work colleagues when my day is going to shit because the symptoms are bad. And by that I mean, being a bit more flexible when it comes to work and getting things done. But for colleagues to be able to do that some awareness sessions are needed, so that they understand this could be a thing that is happening to me and others and maybe don’t judge me/us?

When I first started the menopause the symptoms were horrific. I was put on the wrong HRT and I became suicidal. When driving my car I had urges to drive it, in to a barrier or a tree. In my job I do a lot of site visits. At a team meeting one day I was asked if I had capacity to go to a site visit some 10 miles away. To get there would mean navigating a notorious roundabout system and motorway. I immediately got anxious and started babbling about how I hated that road network and I’ll never forget one of my middle aged, very posh male colleagues looking at me and sneering in front of everyone ‘oh, how ridiculous to be scared of a roundabout. I’ve never heard of anything so stupid’. It was one of the few times I have been made to feel like a piece of shit and it was terrible.

I stopped driving after that because I couldn’t trust myself. So I used public transport instead. My manager at the time was bloody amazing. I broke down and told her what was happening. I went to the GP and had my HRT changed and I was able to have counselling through our employee assistance programme. We wrote up a plan for how I would manage the bad days and what support I needed and that is with our HR department.

My confidence has come back now but I still have days when things are bad but I have a new manager who has seen my plan and I just have to say ‘it’s not a great day for a visit can I swap things around and get it done on this day?’ and he’s always said yes. I don’t have to go into details. He gets it.

Sorry, I’ve rambled (it’s a bad day for me today as my brain is foggy and I can’t seem to articulate my sentences as coherently as I would like) but I guess what I’m trying to say is without your colleagues being aware that menopause can be and is an issue for many women when it comes to work, they will lack that compassion and empathy to support anyone when they need a bit of a helping hand.

I would encourage you to talk to your HR department l, I work in HR and we're currently developing a menopause policy.... it's quite a current topic of discussion in HR circles at the moment so I'm sure they'd welcome the chance to discuss it. Is there someone in your HR department you'd feel comfortable talking to?

i think you need to champion menopause op.
there may be others in the same boat

I meant talk about it to HR, not really impose on my co-workers.

Phew. For the co-workers I mean.
Very glad you specified what you actually meant when you said "in the workplace."
Yup, I'm definitely burnt out by hearing grumbles about someone's problems I can't fix either.

I don't want companies making a song and dance about it tbh. Awareness fine. Speak to your GP about it. I don't want it to become just another thing that they beat women down with!

Menopause is everywhere in my company. Podcasts, advice sessions, drop in clinics, ts the new buzzword in d and I.

ShesSingingThatSongAgain, you seem very defensive, when a PP has simply corrected your grammar! She was being helpful to you, in that you will now know the correct conjugation of the verb “seek”: seek, sought, have sought, had sought - rather than continuing to make an error which might have embarrassed you in future in a more formal setting - in a work document, for example.
Incidentally, surely there should be an apostrophe in your user name: She’s?
(Yes, I am both autistic and a pedant, before you ask…!)

If you wish to be pedantic, I'm fairly certain that you'll find you can't put a comma in a username. Trust me I tried.

@mrschocolatte that sounds like a supportive employer.

The TUC has some guidance on menopause policies, too. One of the reasons it's big news in HR etc is that women around this age are one of the biggest demographics in the UK workforce, and some women end up not working at all because of their symptoms.

I think it can be a double-edged sword - yes, there needs to be awareness and particularly that you can manage symptoms, and it's good to allow managers to let work be flexible and so on. But as has been mentioned, all the publicity around it can give the impression that all women will fall apart and be useless from age 45-55 or so, and it's been enough of a constant battle to be seen as as capable as men in the first place, especially in industries which are still male dominated. (I did used to sometimes think of making a sign saying, "I'm dealing with all the same work shit you are, and period pains too, so please fuck off with your whinging," but of course I just took painkillers and carried on.)

I do think it's sensible for workplaces to have policies to deal with things like menopause, to give managers and employees flexibility yo work with it rather than against it. But equally, I've been through enough webinars on managing the menopause in the workplace, like it's all a new discovery (which, in terms of the workplace, it sort of is, because it was mostly a taboo subject for my mother's generation.) I suppose in a few more years, things will settle down to normality where it can be talked about normally rather than obsessively.

Be brave, advocate for yourself. That's how all those other groups you mentioned now have accommodations made for them. And I dont mean going on about to others like a PP mentioned (and I dont think thats what you meant either). I mean saying it when it matters. I need to leave early because I am experiencing ... symptom. I need to work from home to accommodate ..... I will get back to you on that on this date .... as I am dealing with this at the moment. etc.

I think people like Davina made it easier to do this, its not hidden, its not taboo, youd have to be living under a rock not to have heard of peri/menopause these days. She is a vibrant public figure and has been very honest. Spain has just introduced monthly leave for menstruation, the world is changing to recognise half the population have a body with different issues and requirements, and male is not the default. Lets not get in the way of that (talk about self sabotage).

Also I dont think Gen Z consider Gen X to be boomers, we are the youth of the 90s, a decade they seem to hold in very high regard. We paved the way for many of the social changes they enjoy today and we were the first digital youth. We are also probably the age of most of their parents, whereas boomers are their grandparents. You can be mature and graceful and wise, it doesn't have to mean out of touch.

My experience is that, even if they have menopause policies, the reality is that they are only talking the talking, not walking the walk. Particularly if you are a manager.
I was being managed out, ironically, by a woman manager ( younger than me)
I left on my terms.

I do think the Davina-isation of the menopause has done more harm than good though. Nobody dare speak to us in case we crumble into menopausal wrecks. We spent fucking decades proving that just because we were women we could actually be considered seriously in the workplace only for this shit to come back and hit us now.

I couldn’t agree more. At the end of my working life my age conferred a distinct advantage - I wasn’t going to be off on maternity leave and had no childcare needs. I got very rapid promotion because I was completely reliable. That probably wouldn’t happen now because the menopause has been turned into a dramatic life event rather than a normal process. It’s put women’s place in the workplace back decades.

Cut down on spicy foods alcohol and caffeine. Ideally eliminate them altogether. Eat a healthy anti inflammatory diet with plenty of water daily and as much physical exercise as your lifestyle allows. Ideally plant foods based diet with Mediterranean foods in addition. I still enjoy a little meat and chicken though.

Speaking as a post menopausal 59 year o ld! I still overheat plus a dry mouth plus forgetfulness though the latter is improving thanks to nuts after breakfast.

@BansheeofInisherin I work in a largely female environment (Nurse) - it is widely and openly moaned and joked about on a daily basis - patients often join in - the youngsters find it interesting, entertaining, tedious but it offends no one and tbh provides us all with a bit of mutual support as we all have very different experiences. I work with a young Drag artist who finds it hilarious but never takes the piss. I look back at my time in office work and don’t think it would have been tolerated in the same way. Us older women impart loads of wisdom and experience though - I think the menopause is as significant as any other non life threatening health issue and we should be allowed to discuss!

What is an anti-inflammatory diet, and how would I know if it was working for me? How long would that take to confirm results?

Will start a new thread if that's best. In theory I have a string of chronic inflammatory conditions.

This made me smile a bit. I am vegetarian from birth, eat a lot of anti inflammatories- turmeric, ginger, garlic- and fermented food, but can't cut out spicy food as am Asian and I might as well die without my spice! I don't drink alcohol and have reduced caffeine.

I appreciate all your suggestions. Sorry to those pp who have had a harder time than I have. I am going to give the HRT a few more months to work. I get that the whole issue is a double aged sword.

@mrschocolatte what stage were you at when all that happened. I really recognise what you are describing but I'm in full menopause now (2 years after last period) rather than peri. I'm also nervous about trying HRT in case it makes mental health worse (I know it works brilliantly for many women but can't really risk getting any worse.)

OP I hope you find a good solution at work.

@kizziee So, I started HRT one year after my periods stopped (this was about 7 years ago). Before I went on HRT….the only way I can describe it - it was like I was a rubbish photocopy of the real me - all blurred lines and confused while the real me felt locked away and hidden from the world. After starting HRT it worked fine for about a year but then due to HRT shortages I was put on the wrong type that didn’t give me enough estrogen and that’s what caused the huge dip in my mental health and the suicidal thoughts. When my GP realised I was on the wrong type of HRT she rectified this straight away and within a week I was like a different woman again.
It’s a tough call to go on HRT but all I can say is when I am on the right kind of HRT I feel like myself and I’m happier and able to function ‘normally’.

In my workplace the Gen zs call the millennials boomers and appear to think they have solidarity with the grumpy Gen Xs. Also they envy being young in the 90s which seems to be like the 60s to them.

if your workplace is happy to deal with all the stuff you mention I’d just talk to HR about what you may need - you don’t have to share it w your colleagues.

I think the worry about the Davina effect is misplaced - I think everyone understands some people suffer more with PMT / anxiety / menopause / whatever than others. I really doubt anyone has taken that info and thinks older women are useless. If they think that it’s because they always did.

It sounds to me like you might be projecting some of your own concerns onto your colleagues, although that’s understandable if you feeling shit and low. Ask for the help you need and batter your GP if you need to.

@Zippedydoo123

please explain nuts after breakfast ?!

How I feel is like getting old is the last taboo. I feel like there is a sort of veiled contempt of older women- boomer!- which would not be tolerated about any other community.

I do totally agree and I am so very, very tired of fighting the battles and paving the way for those coming along behind, just to have them bloody well resent me for it.