Mum sentenced to 28 months in prison for abortion pills

[mumoftwobarnyboys]

Used after the cut off point of 10 weeks.

Regardless of how far gone she was, surely this isn't right?

It is her body, despite me morally really thinking what she did was very wrong.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/12/woman-in-uk-jailed-for-28-months-over-taking-abortion-pills-after-legal-time-limit?CMP=twtgu&utmmsource=Twitter&utmmedium=&s=08#Echobox=1686577294

This is talking about another case that had similarities and may set legal precedent .

to the extent the slogan “abortion is healthcare” is an attempt to substantiate the argument that abortion should not be governed by the criminal law it seems to me to be an abject failure. The criminal law can potentially apply to the provision of healthcare in many different contexts.
just another brainless, meaningless sound bite.

Its disgraceful it even made it to court. You get less tome for rape in this country! Utterly mysogynist justice system.

Actually please do explain it. In terms of it killing it, what's the moral difference between an unborn viable child, a 2 week old or a 15 year old?

I can understand why some would draw the line at viability, as until then the fetus is dependent on its mother's body for survival. But once that fetus is capable of surviving on its own outside of the womb, no one has any business killing it.

The mother has deprived her children, not the judge.

Legally life begins at first breathe.

Additionally, before life, the woman can choose to end her pregnancy (within a legal framework which isn't open enough imo), as the alternative is forced birth.

I'm sure you can agree that the bodily autonomy of a living human is higher priority than that of the unborn baby.

Is this any different to assisted suicide? What if she had taken an overdose whilst pregnant with the intent of killing the baby? Why should she be forced to continue a pregnancy if her mental health couldn't cope, would it be any different if she was induced or sectioned at that gestation due to MH but the baby died?

It's advert slippery slope and scary when you consider the impact this could have on the availability of abortions.

A more appropriate sentence would have been counselling and sterilisation

She knew she was much further on than 10 weeks though.

The body of the baby.

See I don’t see much difference between this and the case of Hannah Cobley (has likely others similar) where the baby was killed shortly after birth. This was a baby who had a good chance of survival outside the womb.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7112231/amp/Stoney-Stanton-woman-Hannah-Cobley-29-murdered-newborn-baby-girl-wrapped-body-plastic-bags.html

i don’t understand how anyone can defend this.

Wow. So you think it's ok to force a women to be sterilised? But criminalising abortion past a point is too controlling on women's bodies?

Whilst I generally agree with you, there are many many people who want babies but their only option is to remain childless or adopt. This baby would have been wanted and loved.

You understand that the majority of women who are 34 weeks pregnant want to have a child right?

That's absolutely valid and they should be supported.

A tiny percentage of women don't want to have a child, despite being 30+ weeks pregnant, and they should be supported with that too.

It's a choice, to suggest that pre/neonatal care should be stopped because some women feel differently is taking that choice away.

She was manipulative, callous, deceptive and downright wicked to basically kill the baby almost about to be born. Sickening. She totally deserves the jail sentence - throw away the key.

Murder.

I don’t care whether a 32 week foetus is not considered a baby until it’s born. The fact is it is a baby. Capable of feeling the suffering of being killed.

Despicable. The laws are there fora reason. The baby was viable. If she didn’t want it she could have given it up for adoption, this isn’t like a woman being forced to carry a baby to term which isn’t even moving yet and which is essentially a group of cells. This was a viable foetus. She was going to give birth to it anyway, and she actively chose to give birth to a dead baby which she had killed.

If that makes me not fully pro choice I’m happy to wear that badge.

No sympathy what so ever.

A fetus isn't born.

A 2 week old is born.

A 15 year old is born.

A fetus is in another person's body, that person gets to call the shots with their own body, because they are born and should have autonomy.

There has to be a cut off, and the cut off should be birth.

Nobody has a late term abortion for the LOLZ, I trust women to do what's best for themselves, even if it makes others uncomfortable or angry.

Couldn't of put it better

You could argue that anyone aborting a baby at 32 weeks will be giving birth regardless of the outcome for the baby, so at that stage you can't have forced birth.

She murdered a viable baby. 28 months isn't enough.

Do you not think her barrister would have been very clear that if she pleaded not guilty, and was subsequently found guilty, the judge would have to give a custodial sentence? Judges don’t just make sentences up out of thin air - there are very strict parameters.

Did you read the judges comments up thread?

Aborting a baby that late into a pregnancy is quite frankly horrific. She must have been driven by desperation, but many babies born at that gestation are generally healthy and well after some support from NICU and go on to live a healthy fulfilled life. This was not a cluster of cells of the size of a poppy seed (not that makes it any easier for those who have had early miscarriages).

I don't know who is at fault here I haven't read enough. The mother for doing it? The health care system for failing her? Whoever dispatched those pills without arranging a scan or examination to ensure they were appropriate?

Imagine the baby had survived the abortion and had horrific health problems as a result of a forced early birth? Or was born and attempted to breathe and had a traumatic experience before passing? Where would this woman be then?

I don't know if jail is the appropriate course of actin but she sure as hell needs a massive intervention and the health care provider tha

... continued

I don't know if jail is the appropriate course of action but she sure as hell needs a massive intervention and the health care provider that supported her in doing this needs a thorough investigation.

I never said the care should stop. I also never said women shouldn't be supported.

A fetus is in another person's body, that person gets to call the shots with their own body, because they are born and should have autonomy.

Law in England says otherwise.

Just as 'the law says a fetus is not a person' the law also says 'it is illegal to carry out an abortion past 24 weeks with the exception of X circumstances'.