12-hour wait in A&E: is this the new normal?

[Pluvia]

I'm staying with a post-operative friend and had to take her to A&E at 2.30am this morning. There were ten ambulances and crews queued outside with engines running. The waiting room was 75% full. There was a 12-hour wait to see a doctor. We sat and waited beside a man with a broken arm who was in such pain that they put him on oromorph. He'd been waiting for nearly five hours when we left.

I checked the news, expecting there to have been a major RTA or similar, but could find nothing. Fortunately, once triaged, my friend was told it would be okay to go home and return to a minor injuries unit today. The very earliest she would otherwise have been seen was 9am, when a nurse practitioner would come on duty and might be qualified to carry out the procedure she needed. If it subsequently turned out that she needed to be seen by a doctor she would have had to wait — possibly till 2-3pm today.

Is this just how it is now? There's no point in blaming the Tories, I'm currently in Wales, where Labour has been running the health system for more than 20 years.

I think this has been normal for a while unfortunately

I was sent to a&e by my gp as I was peeing pure blood (ouch) . I think that made my stay in a&e quicker as I was in the unit for six hours. During that time I was triaged and I had some bloods taken, put on a trolley after four hours and a drip was put up. Then a bed on the urology ward was found.
no idea what would’ve happened if I had just turned up.

Which A&E was it, OP? we can look at the official statistics. Probably > 70% of attenders finish their appointment within 4 hours, but there's a long tail of other attenders who take hugely longer.

I've been really fortunate not to have had to visit A&E for some years. I've only had to attend four times in my life and on two of those occasions it's been as carer for someone else. Perhaps I'm naive to be shocked, but I am. I think we were very lucky to be able to get away.

It seems to be usual, unfortunately. My neighbour had Pneumonia, was kept on a hospital trolley for 20 hours before being admitted. In A & E, she was offered a sandwich, despite being unable to swallow due to having had operations on her throat (due to cancer) some years ago. She was eventually given ONE yogurt.

It was Swansea. Morriston. My friend needs to move to Powys, according to those stats. Thanks for highlighting them.

I'd expected at least 4 hours, possibly 6 but 12 hours? Or do they just tell you that so that any time-wasters go home? And now I'm wondering if we'd have been classified as time-wasters...

This has been the normal since 2020.

My terminally ill dad was in a cubicle in A&E for 30hrs before he was seen by a dr.

Something similar happened to my MIL, who didn't get anything to eat or drink for 12 hours+ after being admitted, got out of bed to use the loo, fainted (low blood pressure/ blood sugar) and broke her shoulder.

Just packing a bag with provisions, books, water, food, flask of decent coffee, phone charger, iPad with downloaded films/ TV and new audio books etc, in preparation for today's long wait.

Yep usual unfortunately. I was recently in A&E with an elderly relative. Ambulance arrived within the hour, paramedics were fantastic. Saw nurses and had tests done straight away - then a 12 hour wait to actually see a doctor. It's not good enough but if the staff just aren't there then there's no other solution unfortunately.

I don’t mean to offend OP but I would assume that the 12 hour A&E wait is for people who often don’t really need to be there. Eg. Could you have called 111 and seen an out of hours GP or as your friend ended up doing be seen the next day without anything terrible happening.

The people who go to A&E needing very urgent accident and emergency care generally still get seen very quickly.

Eg. Recent experiences with difficulty breathing, child with fractured skull, car accident leading to unconsciousness. Have all been rushed through and seen immediately.

Last time I had to visit A&E was september last year, waited maybe a little over an hour, was a weekday around 7pm.
Waiting room was maybe 1/3 full, majority of people there didnt need A&E attention, they should be allowed to chase people from the desk so they dont clog up the system - a charge would deter the impatient / unthinking / selfish.

Honestly I've never waited that long in A+E, whenever I've gone it's been quite quick but I have only attended for quite serious accidents.

I think from my experience a lot of people attend if they're unsure where to seek care from elsewhere and are often triaged and sent home with instructions on where to seek care. That definitely adds to the wait time, from what I've heard 111 is quite keen on sending people to A+E!

I was in recently after a car accident and several people who came into A+E were known by name by the staff and we got the impression from comments made by the staff they perhaps were regular time wasters. A gentleman also arrived with a finger he'd injured two weeks ago but that morning had a bruise appear. That sort of thing definitely bumps up average wait times!

Sometimes there might be a longer wait if they're dealing with an incident (which might not always be on the news) or perhaps with someone with particular needs.

12 hours is a very very long time to wait, I'd expect a proportion of those people to be waiting so long because they don't need to be there. Some people might be waiting longer because they need further care that's not provided by A+E (like being admitted) and there's no beds free for them or similar,

don’t mean to offend OP but I would assume that the 12 hour A&E wait is for people who often don’t really need to be there

Not in our case. The wait was because there weren't enough doctors for the number of people there. They finished their shift and it was another 3/4 hours before the next shift started. My relative ended up being admitted for 2 weeks.

My Dad (then 82) was left sitting on a hard chair for nearly 26 hours to be admitted. He'd collapsed, and was later diagnosed with liver cancer. It was inhuman and he only had food/drink (insulin dependent diabetic) because my sister and I took it in turns to sit with him.

I badly burned my arm a few months ago (caught it on the oven shelf) and didn't even bother going in as I knew I'd be better off seeing the practice nurse the next day to get it dressed. I've got a horrific scar as a result but had no faith in the system.

This is very true my 16 year old collapsed in February not only was 'the ambulance there within minutes ,but once he was stabilised he was rushed straight to A&,E and straight through to resus they do have to.p prioritise
on the other hand my 81 year old dad had a fall.a Xmas and was waiting several hours for an ambulance and once taken to.A&E was sat waiting most of the night ,obviously that's not great but my son was critically ill and my Dad didn't need any treatment once checked over .

last Year with my dad we had numerous dealing with a and e / ambulance service
found extremes in length of wait from 30 minutes to 12 hours

all that said the couple of times it was REALLY urgent we were more or less straight in regardless how busy it was

11 hours I had to wait in A&E recently, in agonising pain with what turned out to be cholecystitis. I wasn’t offered pain killers or anything. At one point I was lying on the floor writhing in pain, puking into one of those cardboard things, while people around me chatted, giggled, and ate Doritos. In hindsight I should have demanded pain relief but I was in so much pain I could barely speak. None of the nurses or the harassed doctor I eventually saw was particularly interested. The one that took my blood pressure just rolled her eyes when I told her I was in agony.

I was referred to a same day treatment centre (two days later!) & the doctor was horrified at my blood work and scan results & wanted to admit me but couldn’t as I have to look after baby ds. Took six weeks of antibiotics to shift the infection and now my gallbladder is basically non functioning and I’m waiting for surgery. I was assured by doctors that my surgery would be in 6-8 weeks but it’s now been 10 weeks & I haven’t heard anything. I’ve lose three stone and I’m severely anemic. How is it right to leave someone in this state?

It was Swansea. Morriston. My friend needs to move to Powys, according to those stats. Thanks for highlighting them.

We don't have an A&E in the whole of Powys, OP, so I would really not advise moving here for that reason! Our local A&E is either Shrewsbury or Hereford from where I am in Powys, both over an hours drive and while Hereford has marginally better waiting times, you'd still be in for a long wait at either unfortunately ☹️ hope your friend is feeling better and has managed to get sorted.

Mum broke her hip on Monday. She lives in a care home suffers from dementia.
Ambulance took 3 hours fell off the chair trying to get up on her own. Lay on the floor.
On a trolley for 15 hours.
Saw a doctor who said yes she needs an operation.
4 more hours waiting for the operation.

When she got there a nurse told me that it will be a very long wait as some people had been there since 6am. We got there at 9.30pm.

Feel so sorry for the staff they were run off their feet.

Sadly yes it is. There was a 26 hour wait one shift I worked, and this wasn't due it to being excessively busy, just not enough staff and not enough examination spaces.

I honestly think anyone who has an excessive wait in A & E should write to their MP. Unless the government gets hassled enough about the state of the NHS, nothing will ever change.

Yep, I recently spent 29 hours in A&E. One sandwich and one cup of water. I was horrendously ill, had a bacterial infection and blood results from day before were sky high with abnormal level markers. Ended up with a ten day stay in hospital. There seemed to be absolutely no urgency whatsoever. Genuinely the worst experience of my life.

It's awful and I'm not surprised. To be fair I have to say that the care given to my son when he was critically ill was amazing. However as soon as he was physically patched up then it was "sorry we can't help you" and ridiculous waiting lists again.

Fortunately we've been seen very quickly in A&E but they have been genuine serious emergencies and 4/6 were for our children/child.
I think sometimes it's luck of the draw where you live, certain trusts are worse than others and obviously depends on the day, staffing levels, your own condition in comparison to other patients.

I don’t mean to offend OP but I would assume that the 12 hour A&E wait is for people who often don’t really need to be there. Eg. Could you have called 111 and seen an out of hours GP or as your friend ended up doing be seen the next day without anything terrible happening.

I don't agree with this. There is a large range of injuries and illnesses that fall into the categories between time-waster and critical. Take my DS, who had a nasty head injury with a large open wound and concussion. Thankfully he wasn't dying but most definitely couldn't have seen a GP or called 111. He had to wait 7 hours in pediatric A&E before eventually collapsing and being admitted and treated.

A&E departments are unfortunately a complete lottery and not fit for purpose. It's scary.