12-hour wait in A&E: is this the new normal?

[Pluvia]

I'm staying with a post-operative friend and had to take her to A&E at 2.30am this morning. There were ten ambulances and crews queued outside with engines running. The waiting room was 75% full. There was a 12-hour wait to see a doctor. We sat and waited beside a man with a broken arm who was in such pain that they put him on oromorph. He'd been waiting for nearly five hours when we left.

I checked the news, expecting there to have been a major RTA or similar, but could find nothing. Fortunately, once triaged, my friend was told it would be okay to go home and return to a minor injuries unit today. The very earliest she would otherwise have been seen was 9am, when a nurse practitioner would come on duty and might be qualified to carry out the procedure she needed. If it subsequently turned out that she needed to be seen by a doctor she would have had to wait — possibly till 2-3pm today.

Is this just how it is now? There's no point in blaming the Tories, I'm currently in Wales, where Labour has been running the health system for more than 20 years.

I spent 24 hours in A&E waiting for a bed with cardiac issues last year. There was a young lad with raised blood sugars on an insulin infusion asleep on the floor wrapped in blankets as there were no more trolleys.
Once I got to the ward my bay was full of mostly elderly people with poor mobility who had fallen and were insisting on going home.
In fact I had three admissions and saw this repeatedly.
And there repeats the cycle.

I’ve been in A&E a few times recently(blood disorder) it was manic, I waited a while but when seen sorted out promptly, man opposite me came in sat up wide awake, within minutes they were doing cpr on him, they work their bloody socks off is all I can say they are not sat doing nothing!

its because they shut all the other a&e in the area and all have to go to Swansea now! I’m originally from Pembrokeshire and they closed withybush a&e a while ago (presumably still closed but haven’t been down for a couple of years). I’ve unfortunately had multiple a&e visits this year due to declining health and each time has been 4-6 hour wait followed by absolutely useless drs. It’s honestly appalling the treatment you get sometimes and so very dangerous (speaking from experience - nearly died of sepsis)

We called 111 and were told to go to A&E.

My dad got taken in by ambulance around midnight. I was called by the people who found him but couldn’t go to the hospital as my young children were asleep and I’m a single parent. I called and left messages with their dad who eventually rang me back around 4 in the morning and came over to let me go to the hospital but I was told not to until he had a bed. I then got a phone call about 8am asking for me to go in as he was confused and basically annoying the nurses. I went about 9am and found him still on a trolley waiting for a bed in the A&E part. Trollies were liking corridors and it was absolute carnage. He had been seen. He’d had nothing to eat or drink and I’d been told he had to be nil by mouth as initial tests showed low sodium and he had to pee it all out. It was around lunch time when we were out in a side room, still not on a ward. He was eventually brought a sandwich and I went to the shop and got him some other bits of food. Still wasn’t allowed a drink. He eventually got onto the ward too late for his evening meal. Saw a doctor first thing in the morning kn their ward rounds. He was kept in a week and was seriously poorly. There was no point in complaining as the staff were so busy and some of the patients were awful to them. I just had to keep my dad calm. We think he had early stages of dementia at the time.

Morriston has been like that for a few years now . I've waited anywhere between 4-10 hours in A&E in England although the waits seem to be better over here then my friends in wales and the set up seems better too

My friend is waiting in A&E. Has been referred to urgent care where there's a 2.5 hour wait. She's been there since about 4pm. She's also starving.

That broken arm would permanently cripple and most likely eventually kill that person.

In exchange for having it fixed, getting their life back and not dying, they have to sit in a waiting room for a few hours.

Sounds like a good deal to me.

How much would willingly a doctor to fix your broken leg if the NHS didn't exist?
Would you think 20k was reasonable to get your life back?

The NHS might be shit, but it's free.

I was waiting with my partner for 10 hours on a Friday daytime, he was experiencing chest pains, 2 weeks after they had a heart attack when he had a full cardiac arrest and had emergency heart surgery. NHS 111 called the ambulance due to the high risk.

He saw a doctor 5 hours after the ambulance dropped him off, then another 5 hours waiting to be admitted prior to having an angiogram.

There was water available, but no food as the machine was out of order. He was waiting with a lad who was vomiting and was clearly very unwell. 3 days after he was admitted he went down with norovirus, and his ward was shut. 3 other patients and 3 nurses were also infected. More than likely caught from the boy who was vomiting.

There was nowhere to isolate the lad that was vomiting, Drs were saying to patients 'I'm just trying to find somewhere to examine you, I will come and get you when I have found somewhere' Every bay had a patient in it, waiting room was full, patients waiting on trolleys in the corridor.

It was awful, staff clearly trying their best but hopelessly understaffed, not enough beds available, not enough room for the patients to wait safely. Sadly this is normal now, and its a bloody disgrace its got this bad.

Before asking for more money for the NHS in the UK why not ask why other major economies (exception of America) spend less on ALL healthcare as % of GDP than we spend on the NHS and have better hospitals and care than us.

We spend a bit less than Germany, a lot less than the USA, but more than France, more than Japan, more than Spain, more than Italy as a % of GDP.

This is not about privatisation, and it's not criticism of nurses or doctors, but the whole system from hospital floors, GPs and so need reviewing to work better. Shoveling more money at something that is so poorly managed won't help. New hospitals won't stop A&Es being badly managed or change the fact that universities don't train enough doctors.

DH's grandfather with emphysema was left in a chair for 18 hours. He just went home in the end.

Last 2 times I have been it was 14 hours.

I had to take my daughter to a&e yesterday afternoon for an injury that happened few weeks back so not actually an emergency but gp wouldn’t see us & i called NHS 24 so as not to waste time at a&e who agreed with me and said out of hours would contact me with best steps to take. Dr phoned said not minor injuries but a&e in person - really didn’t want to waste everyones time but she needed to be seen & i’d tried all other methods so we ventured to the local a&e & it was busy but i was really surprised. Half hr wait to see nurse to be triaged, an hour after that took through from waiting room & we sat about 40mins there for a doctor so all in we were there about 2 & a half hours but that was a sunny Saturday afternoon so i think it depends where, when & obviously whats up. People were taken in right away and people who arrived after us were taken before us etc as they triaged people. Guy behind me said he had been waiting over 3 hours so maybe as she was a child? I was shocked but couldn’t complain & “average” wait time on the board was 4-5 hours.

you hear some horror stories. Sadly last year my dad was sent in an ambulance via gp survery to a &e (no one allowed in with him) & he sat about 6hours on the trolley. Then was another couple of hours before he got admitted - he had heart failure & they decided to test for cancer when he was in due to some of the swelling etc he had. We were lucky yesterday as i fully expected to sit 6+ hours especially as we weren’t an emergency (as i said i felt bad going but i had tried all other avenues and the a&e dr agreed it was best to do as we had to get her checked so we weren’t wasting anyones time)

I've had the misfortune to break both my arms in the last 2 years, the last just a week ago. I was in the same a&e department both times and the waiting time was definitely dependent on the day and time. First time was 9am on a Thursday morning and I was xrayed, seen and discharged by lunchtime. Last time was last Friday night when I went in at 10.30 but wasn't discharged until gone 7am.

Yep, I took my friend to A&E and was horrified. People rolling around on the floor in pain and elderly people sat in wheelchairs shivering with cold. It was grim.

I was in last weekend (Saturday at 14;00) with what turned out to be a fractured ankle and was out in 2 hours. Tbh I was amazed. They did get me in a wheelchair immediately and through to a treatment area.

I wonder if it's worst at night and weekends due to drinking and sports?

You can assume all you like, but I waited in A&E for over 15 hours with my 80 year old Mum, (and how DARE you say she didn’t need to be there), who had visible internal haemorrhaging occurring following a fall. She is on blood thinners and the bleeding bubbled up under her skin until it formed huge blisters. Despite triage seeing this, she was not seen properly until the blisters burst and she bled all over the floor in the waiting room. There were simply not enough staff or resources. This then resulted in a hospital stay of four weeks (with appalling care, again due to lack of staff) and 12 weeks housebound due to an enormous open wound. According to the Dr, If she’d been seen four hours earlier, this could have been avoided.

People need to get their fingers out of their ears and stop blaming “malingerers” and accept that the NHS has been absolutely fucked by the Tories.

It’s not the ‘new’ normal. My mum was admitted 7 years ago (hospital on mile away). Was in A and E for 11 hours before went to a ward. That was via the ambulance. This country’s health system was absolutely b**d before covid. Once she was admitted to a ward they were brill but A and E underfunded, overworked and people popping in for a sprained ankle (because they can’t/won’t get a GP appt) makes it 10 times worse

Tabitha2721 Withybush A@E is definitely open.
OP if a minor injury I would suggest Neath MIU.
Morriston is always under significant pressure.

It seems to be the luck of the draw. I went with my 15 year old experiencing heart palpitations and we were seen after maybe 5 hours. This is not the first time, and she's been referred to a cardiologist and we got an appointment within 4 weeks which was only 7 days longer than we were able to arrange privately.

But then my mother's elderly friend was left for 48 hours in her own shit, in a side ward in A&E in another part of the country. So I guess it depends where you live and how busy it is?

I've heard a lot of negative things lately from friends and family trying to get treatment and it's really quite scary. Hence, us looking privately for my daughter.

But it’s hard to say who’s malingering and misusing a&e. When I was there last Friday, I overheard the conversation in the cubicle next to me and it seemed the guy just had a cold or minor viral infection, which at most needs a trip to Boots. But he could have had an underlying condition. My mum died of cancer and while she was on chemo, her white blood cells responsible for fighting infection would drop and the standard advice is basically shield at certain times of the cycle and seek urgent medical attention if she got as much as the sniffles. We had to take her to a&e with a cold once where she was put on antibiotics as a preventative measure. One side of me hoped this guy was like that, or had cystic fibrosis or brittle asthma where he’s been advised to attend a&e in this situation. Well not hoped he had, that sounds cruel, but you know what I mean. I hoped he wasn’t a time waster.

Sadly it is becoming more common. There are many reasons for it, more than I could write in a thread here. This is why nurses and doctors are striking. The hospital I work in (big, city centre hospital, which also is a tertiary centre for more than one specialty, with a separate A&E for children) has A&E attendances upwards of 300 for a 24 hour period. For those patients, there may be 3 or 4 doctors and maybe 15 nurses. Sometimes with staff shortages less than that. Patients are seen in time and clinical priority order. But a major trauma call, for example, would take doctors from another area in A&E adding to the wait.
Then there are low discharge numbers from the wards, so people stay in A&E longer. The social care needed for people after hospital is also overwhelmed. On the wards, it may be 2 or 3 nurses for 28/30 patients. It is hard work, physically and mentally. Healthcare is no longer the attractive career it used to be. University places are not being filled for healthcare courses.
That is just a snapshot and it’s not a nice picture.

On 1st May (BH) I was admitted for severe vomiting, via 111/Dr visit/ paramedics, to our general A&E in early afternoon.
I’m 72 and a cancer patient.
I was lucky to get a numbered corridor trolley spot fairly quickly, was seen by various personnel and given various tests/meds.
Was eventually admitted to an AMU, more than 24 hours later, and spent 18 days in different beds/wards before discharge.
This is how it is 🤷🏼‍♀️ and yes, I repeat that I was lucky!

I spent 15 hours overnight last week for broken arm in A&E. Staff were doing their best but so many people waiting and so many people seemed to be using it as a social club. Chatting laughing and eating Doritos!! I was given regular pain relief. Perhaps triage need to be more selective?

You do know we can look stuff up don't you?

The USA spends more per capita than any other nation by a country mile and often has worse health outcomes

We spend nearly half the USA does per person

https://www.statista.com/statistics/236541/per-capita-health-expenditure-by-country/

apps.who.int/gho/data/node.main