4 year old attacked at nursery

[Whado]

My 4 yo DS was attacked at nursery by another child yesterday and possibly the worst thing about it is the nursery staff didn’t tell me. DS told me on the way home but I didn’t see the extent of his injuries until we got home and I moved his hair out of the way. He has two deep scratches on his forehead and a big bruise that looks like a kick/punch on his temple. He said he was having a nap when a boy jumped on him and started hitting and scratching him. I don’t know whether I’m more pissed off that he was attacked or that they didn’t even bother telling me.

It isn’t the first incident either. He has been pushed over by two different boys on more than one occasion and has had grazes on his knee/elbow as a result. Those two boys have SEN so when I’ve approached nursery they have made me feel really awkward about it and told me with a side head tilt that ‘they have special needs so don’t mean it’. I don’t think they can cope with the SEN children personally and those children probably need 1:1 provision if they’re pushing children and hurting them imo. One of them also threw his hat over the fence into the school next door a few weeks ago which really upset DS because he loves his hat. The nursery staff kept fobbing me off when I was asking for his hat back so in the end I called the school next door and they gave it back to me…

They’re seriously disorganised too. They constantly give the wrong items to the wrong children, on the very first day they gave all of DS’s belongings to another child. DS’s stuff is purposely quite unique to avoid mix ups and is labelled too but they just seem to shove the kids out of the door with the first thing they find. They give a newsletter out every term but don’t actually follow the newsletter and act surprised when I send DS in with the things they’ve asked for that week.

It’s driving me nuts in all honesty. They only opened last September so no OFSTED rating as yet, my Mum (who is a teacher) said I should report to OFSTED. The problem is they have been super understanding about me not knowing which days I will need provision for both DS’s this year and then just for younger DS next year. I’m a uni lecturer so we aren’t informed of timetables until the last minute which is a nightmare. All other nurseries/CMs I approached last year insisted on knowing the days which I couldn’t tell them hence why I ended up stuck with this one. I’m on the hunt for a new nursery for younger DS as we speak and I’m going to speak to the manager this morning about yesterday’s incident. Just wondering whether I should report them or what other steps I should be taking?

[x2boys]

I would be asking nursery where are doing to safeguard your child
Children do bite ,scratch ,hit other children sometimes more so if a child has SEN ,but 'the staff needs to be vigilant and act to safe guard all.Children ,sounds like there isn't enough staff but that's not your child's fault .

[Temporaryname158]

Report to ofsted and seek a meeting tomorrow with the manager. Your child has been assaulted

[Whado]

I’m going in to speak to the manager this morning. I think they’ve taken on children with SEN that they can’t cope with personally. Those children need 1:1 provision if they’re attacking others but the nursery can’t provide that. They’ve quickly filled all
places within the nursery so when they first started last year there was only about 20 other children enrolled because it was new but now there’s 50+ and I don’t think they can cope. I’m obviously not in the nursery business but do think it’s poorly managed, they’re just so disorganised.

[snitzelvoncrumb]

I know this is a terrible thing to suggest, but make a huge fuss every time it happens. Insist on a detailed incident report. Demand to see the action plan they have in place to stop incidents happening. Make a time to speak to the director and make complaints to the agency responsible for nurseries. Really go over the top. If you make it difficult for them they will make sure nothing happens to your son.

[Whado]

He was pushed over on Tuesday by one of the boys with SEN and when I told them they said ‘well he has SEN and doesn’t like people in his personal space’. They should be ensuring an adult is present at all times then to make sure nobody approached him or perhaps a busy nursery setting isn’t the correct place for him if he isn’t keen on others approaching him to play. DS literally just wanted to play with him but got pushed over.

I need to find a new childcare provider before I withdraw because I need to work. I have contacted a few so hopefully one is willing to be flexible this time.

[Hairfriar]

Do you know why the other nurseries needed to know your days? Because they’re complying with safe ratios. If they are rigid in needing to know what sessions your son is attending, it’s because they need to match staffing with the number/age/needs of the children each session. Any nursery that doesn’t need that information in good time is either completely over-staffed (unlikely, there’s a massive shortage and it would be expensive) with extra capacity every session, or their staff is ridiculously flexible working on zero hours contracts, or they aren’t bothered about maintaining safe ratios. The last option sounds most likely given the fact your son has been hurt multiple times by other children and they can’t get their act together to tell you about it.

I’d arrange a meeting with the manager to raise my concerns, and based on their response, decide whether to report to Ofsted and/or withdraw my child. I presume you’re paying a lot of money for them to let your child continue to get hurt.

[SliceOfCakeCupOfTea]

OP that's awful!
When DS was in reception he came home from school one day with claw marks on his neck and face and bruising on his collar bone. My friend had collected him and the teacher didn't say anything to her (they usually would) so she assumed it wasn't related to school or at least that day.
When I saw him and spoke to him I quickly wrote to the school demanding a phone call the next day.
The teacher honestly told me that she can't be expected to remember what cuts and bruises each child has when they come into school and DS should have told her what happened.
I asked how on earth kids so little can be unsupervised for long enough for that to happen to my son and no one noticed the obvious red scratches and dried blood on his face.
I took it to the head teacher straight away who was wonderful.

The child who did it to DS has SEN and a difficult home life, which doesn't excuse what happened, but the school are now taking his situation more seriously.

[Whado]

Yep, I’m paying thousands because I’m sending two DC so it is a lot of money for DS to be attacked so much. He’s starting primary school in September with wraparound care at the school so he won’t be there but youngest will be for the next year unless I can find somewhere else.

I completely understand why they need to know exact days but I can’t provide this until the timetabling team lets me know the days I need to be in. I went back PT last September and didn’t get my timetable until the second week in September. It’s always the same. Colleagues have relatives on hand to help but we don’t because we’re early 30s so our parents still work themselves. Unless another nursery is willing to be flexible, I’m kind of stuck with this one for the next year.

[ODFODeary]

Would it not be easier to get a nanny? id rather pay over the top to get my child away from that situation

[mastertomsmum]

If there was a bump to the forehead then there should have been a written incident report. It’s usually something enshrined in safe guarding policy.

looking at the wider problems they have, it seems disorganised and I’d be looking to move my child if I could.

[rightioly]

@Whado

Yep, I’m paying thousands because I’m sending two DC so it is a lot of money for DS to be attacked so much. He’s starting primary school in September with wraparound care at the school so he won’t be there but youngest will be for the next year unless I can find somewhere else.

I completely understand why they need to know exact days but I can’t provide this until the timetabling team lets me know the days I need to be in. I went back PT last September and didn’t get my timetable until the second week in September. It’s always the same. Colleagues have relatives on hand to help but we don’t because we’re early 30s so our parents still work themselves. Unless another nursery is willing to be flexible, I’m kind of stuck with this one for the next year.

Why do you need them to be flexible? Just send your child in all the days?

[rightioly]

Like I know you need to work obviously but even if there's a financial hit you need to get your kids into a different nursery

[weirdas]

@Whado

I’m going in to speak to the manager this morning. I think they’ve taken on children with SEN that they can’t cope with personally. Those children need 1:1 provision if they’re attacking others but the nursery can’t provide that. They’ve quickly filled all
places within the nursery so when they first started last year there was only about 20 other children enrolled because it was new but now there’s 50+ and I don’t think they can cope. I’m obviously not in the nursery business but do think it’s poorly managed, they’re just so disorganised.

If the children with Sen are attacking other children it's the staffs fault . If those children need extra support they need to apply for the funding to support this otherwise they are failing all the children. If they can't meet need the children need to be in a different provision I would go down complaint route- manager first then ofsted. But is also find new childcare.

[Nicecow]

Get him out of there immediately. You don't know if this will give him psychological harm if it continues

[cuckyplunt]

There will come a time very soon when the children without SEN will be the minority.. and therefore by default will become the children with SEN..

[LaBellina]

ALL children are entitled to a safe environment and SEN isn’t a free pass for the nursery to neglect your son’s right to safeguarding. I would have raised hell if this were my child. This place sounds like a danger to all children and definitely get him out of there. This is beyond unacceptable.

[Kfjsjdbd]

Honestly, if you don’t know the days that you need then you need to commit to 5 days a week childcare elsewhere and suck up the cost. You can’t send your son to that environment.

We had a similar, but not so bad scenario. Nothing terrible happened to my daughter but it was obvious the nursery wasn’t doing well (it had also only just opened so no Ofsted). They were giving children with egg allergies food with egg in repeatedly for example. The nursery received complaints, then had Ofsted come in who rated it ‘requires improvement’. The impact of that is that all funding is pulled, so parents can’t use free hours or tax free childcare at all. The nursery have a short amount of time to turn it around or it’s closed for good. I still feel guilty I didn’t pull her out sooner.

[Hairbrushhandle]

Definitely speak to the manager and ask about the plan to ensure your DC's safety. I'm also a lecturer though and you can (I have across several institutions) put in place teaching constraints, typically this means using your research day as childcare unfortunately, but you'll know for sure you won't have teaching on that day before the timetables are released.

You can then also try hitting the timetabling team hard with boxes of chocolate and biscuit tins to persuade them to give you long full days of teaching to hopefully leave you another day/more clear time for research. I also always ask for the module, not for me. So don't ask "I need Mondays for childcare" say "this module pedagogically needs all its sessions on Tuesday to ensure students can xyz".

These first few years are HARD and if you're on a research contract you'll probably (I do) need to work every evening in the week to make up for the research time lost, but it gets worse when they're in school and out at 3 or at most 5 but once in school you can get the mornings back (5-8am) to push out some writing as they're hopefully sleeping better by then.

[ReformedWaywardTeen]

My DS has SEN and we are awaiting diagnosis for my DD as well.
They are teens now but I've never ever used SEN as an excuse, nor have I allowed anyone else to.

They are using those children's SEN as an excuse for poor management and a lack of professionalism.

Please, as a child who was bullied, please remove him, I know provisions that are flexible are difficult but honestly, the effect this will have on his self esteem is huge and I've never forgiven my mother, who I'm non contact with, for failing to stand up for me and move me.

Can you consider a childminder? They tend to be more flexible?

[MagicBullet]

when I told them they said ‘well he has SEN and doesn’t like people in his personal space’.

The only answer to that is that it’s their role to ensure tte SAFETY of ALL the children .
They are falling badly in their duty of ensuring the nursery is a safe place for all.

[Whado]

I intentionally chose a primary school with good wraparound care so it won’t be as big an issue from September for eldest DC and the year after for youngest. They have breakfast and after school clubs until 5.30pm so DH can collect if I can’t which is great. It’s just getting through the first few years with nursery provision that is tough. Tougher for us than my other colleagues because as I say, they have a good support network to help but we don’t. Great advice though @Hairbrushhandle, I have taken it all on board and will try the chocolate box tactic .

I can’t afford to pay for full time provision even when I’m not working so doubt we could stretch to a nanny. I wanted a CM rather than nursery setting but the CMs I contacted were all full last year. One nursery has already responded to me saying they do have places available for younger DS in September so that’s great news, I’m going to visit next week.

Spoke to nursery manager and she fobbed me off with the SEN lines again. She said they do have 1:1 provision so I asked how/why DS still gets attacked if they’re being supervised and she said she will be investigating because it obviously isn’t acceptable. She’s a nice enough woman but too soft imo. Her own son attends the nursery and I’ve seen how she acts with him, she’s just a bit of a pushover.