How to balance MILs need to be needed and my need to not need her

[Wittsendhasarrived]

Apologies for the length but this is subtle and petty so I just want to explain.

Generally speaking, I love my MIL, she's a lovely woman and has always been very kind and welcoming to me. She is incredibly close with her two grandchildren from her daughter and spends several days a week with them as well as usually one or two overnight stays a week. Thery're home-schooled and MIL has made the odd, snarky comment to me about being put upon by her daughter to help so much because without her and no school, her daughter doesn't get a break. But for the most part I think she's genuinely very happy to have them so much and the comments are more irritation at the expectations her daughter has that she'll always help rather than the actual time she gives them if that makes sense.

My DC are only very small still, 2yo and 4mo. I work full time and we pay for full time childcare. DH and I have never asked and never would ask for her to have the DC on a regular basis to cover childcare but it's also never been offered so we're clearly in the same boat with not wanting that kind of arrangement.
I'm currently on maternity leave and although we have always seen a fair amount of MIL at weekends, obviously I have the luxury of offering more time to spend with her during the week whilst I'm off so I invite her along to whatever we're up to at least once a week.

So the thing that annoys me, is MIL always speaks about how she's happy to 'help me'. We've started a regular activity that I took DC to myself for several weeks before inviting MIL specifically to that. When she got there she took my baby off to help her sleep in her pram whilst I stayed with my toddler to play; I usually just have her in the sling anyway. Afterwards she went on about how much better it was that we could 'divide and conquer' the DC, which I suppose yes, but that wasn't the point for me at all. It wasn't on for half term and she said, oh that's good because I'm not free next time to come and help. I never asked for her help. I didn't invite her because I wanted her help, I invited her so she could come and enjoy the time with her grandchildren.
I always say thank you for coming to spend time with us everytime we've seen her and she always ends it with 'you know I'm always happy to help'.... Again... I didn't ask for help! It's not about help.

The thing is I'm not proud! When I have needed help I have asked. It's not often but when there have been clashing doctors appointments or whatever I have asked and been very grateful to receive help. But I'm getting really irritated at her presumption that I only invite her to things if it's for her to help me.
I guess where I've seen over the years how much she's expected to help out with her older DGC and she's made snarky comments to me about having to and I never wanted to put upon her in the same way and I just hate the idea of her making snarky comments about me to her other DC. I want to make it clear that I'm not asking her for help every time. But she just has this way of never acknowledging that. We were around her house a few weeks ago and I overheard her say to a neighbour that popped in 'my DGC I hear, I help with them once a week'. And my blood to boil a bit because seriously?!

I think though, she is one of this people to that despite the comments, she loves to be needed. She's made a lot of comments about wanting my older DD to have a sleepover but she's never just asked if she can have her, it's always 'I could have her once a month to help out and you can have a rest' and I always turn her down because DH and I don't need a rest right now and feel no need to ship DD off anywhere. If she just asked if she could have DD for the night we'd be fine with that, I'm not precious about her not having a sleepover but I'm being stubborn I suppose and wanting her to ask and not make it sound like she's doing us this big favour.

I know I'm being a bit unfair and perhaps just being precious because it doesn't really matter and I know it would make her happy if I'd just act like yes, everything she does is this great help. But I can't stop myself being irritated by it.

I used to feel like this about my MIL. But honestly, it’s a long game with dc. Yours are still tiny. There will be times in the future when you do need / want time without them, and it will be so useful to have MIL there to help.

She likes to feel useful. It is useful to have another adult around. Your dc will benefit from having another loving adult involved in their lives.

Just go with it. Ignore the helping comments. She is helping and that’s how she likes to phrase it. By accepting that, you are helping her too. You don’t get a prize for doing everything on your own. This is a narrative you can reframe for yourself without needing to create a drama.

I have the exact same scenario with my MIL, exactly!
Unfortunately, I've just learned to ignore it, as when I do actually ask her for babysitting or help if any kind, I'm grateful that she always says yes.

I also think it's a pride thing on her part and a bit of a badge of honour in front of friends.
When my first was born, her sister said to me "oh and you've got all those home made meals in the freezer from MIL". No, I hadn't!

Is it not just words or the way she expresses it and the more you hear it the more it is irritating you? If she said I’m just spending time with my DIL and / or DGC rather than helping out would that sound better to you?

If so then just change the words either in your head or back to her. My best friend finds negotiating with her DIL much more difficult than her DD and she often says I’m happy to help if you need me to because she’s afraid of being overbearing. She does sometimes say let me know when I can spend time with you and baby or the baby but always overthinks it.

I think one option is to have a chat when you are both relaxed and say I don’t invite you or call round for help it’s just to enjoy spending time with you or for you to enjoy time with the DC’s. And then every time she says help you can reply with, not help just spend time with, until she stops saying help?

I'm assuming she doesn't work? She probably just wants to feel useful in the same way she does with her other grandchildren. I think you are focusing on your feelings about being completely independent rather than considering her feelings about being needed. Having her at an activity with you is helpful when you have 2DC and does makes your life easier. It doesn't mean you can't do it by yourself. I suspect if you were to start acknowledging her help and thanking her for it she would stop telling you all the time that she wants to help. And frankly it's no skin off your nose if she likes to tell her neighbour that she's been helping you.

You're a young mum and you'll find more and more over the years you have to consider the grandparent's feelings as much as your childrens until one day your child will make a comment to you and you'll realise they are now helping you with the elderly and frail grandparents rather than the grandparents helping you with the children. And eventually it will be you looking for a way to have a meaningful relationship with your grandchildren.

Ahhhh I can really relate as my MIL is like this and getting worse as she gets older I’m afraid. We are in a different situation as she lives further away but comes to stay often. She cannot just sit still, do nothing and be waited on, always has to be bustling around doing things for people. The issue is she’s also always making snarky comments and is clearly extremely uncomfortable when people try to, say, cook dinner for her or do things not in her way. An example is we went to see her recently and DH wanted to do a barbecue. She HATED him taking control in the kitchen and trying to tell her what to do, it was amusing to watch. But at the same time she moans and complains that her sons never help, she’s so busy blah blah. A bit of a martyr. Same with the kids, always fussing over them about tiny things like so they need a drinks, have they got sun cream etc when I’ve sorted it already. At the beginning I did take this as a criticism of the way I was doing things but now realise it’s not. It’s tiring to be around. My theory is she’s always done everything around the house for her family, and that’s kind of become her identity…and she needs to be needed and praised. Hence the not liking it when people cook for her but also wanting people to constantly praise and recognise how hard she works. It’s an exhausting way to live, and I love her but sometimes want to shout JUST RELAX!!!

@Homeywomey that sounds really difficult. A tightrope to walk but even the tightrope is gone!

I am feeling a little sympathy for these ladies though, they are a generation who commonly were expected to sacrifice all for the family, often had little recognition for their role, many lost themselves to it and shouldered a lot... so a good swathe of them built their whole identity on it and probably struggling with stepping back from it, because who wants to become irrelevant (as it probably feels to many of them)!?
Obviously getting stuck in and then complaining about it, is not reasonable, but I can sympathise with older ladies who don't know what to do with themselves if they aren't the family hub.

Sounds like a 2 way issue. .
She will only ever see herself as helping
You will never see what she does as helping. Cos you see that as an insult to your parenting abilities.

@PimpMyFridge exactly, she’s lovely but I think this is what it is. It was quite a traditional household with her doing all the chores and kind of got stuck in this role. I do have sympathy!

"Oh we don't need 'help' today Joyce, but we'd love to spend time with you"

Ad nauseam

Erm. How old do you think these people are likely to be?!

Your post exactly reflects what I used to feel when my kids were small. Ultimately MIL needed to be needed. I remember inviting her up for a birthday party early on thinking she would enjoy it, she thought she’d come to help and I found it really irritating.

With a bit of distance, I think it gave her a sense of purpose, a reason to get up in the morning and she needs it. Even more so after she was widowed. She’s still ‘helping’ people today, people of her age who are ill.

I think this is what happens when your own kids have grown up and you struggle to find your place in the world.

But your question was about how to balance it. Would an honest chat with her about how you feel work? Ask her how she used to get on with her MIL (she might remember feeling similarly) and gently say that you feel you’re in control and don’t need helping but like her company and the way she gets on with her grandchildren.

If not, then it’s just words, really. Ignore every time she talks about helping. When you talk, make it about how you like seeing her (rather than how much help you need). Thank her when she does something you appreciate. It does pass as the kids get older.

Pre war babies.
No, just kidding, I appreciate that gp's to whom this applies are reducing with every generation, but I'm not taking about all of them, I'm taking about a percentage.
My mil is in her 80's my parents are 70's (my children are small) and it was totally normal for that generation to be expected to be sahm. For some, and it was only some I was taking about, no sweeping generalisations here, a lifetime of that role and feelings about aging and losing ones relevance could well be a factor.
Ok?

That applies to gp's who are 60's too because social cultural expectations shift gradually not suddenly, vary from group to group and even family to family.
I'm just sympathising with those for whom the transition to gp and clashing expectations of what that means between parents and gp's is not plain sailing.

Read a few posts from people whose m'n'laws come over and they are expected to run around after their m'n'law as well as the kids.
You don't need help...but she is helping. So her saying I help with the kids is not biggy really as its technically true.
You want to help her....you are helping her by letting her think she is helping you. You putting in in her place is achieving what for you exactly? You think you are not proud but it sounds like you might be - what is really grating on you about her thinking she is helping you?
You sound a like a nice person these sorts of conflicts always come up in families....my suggestion to you is to lower your expectations of her - expect she is going to say she is helping you. You know the truth, your partner knows the truth, your real life friends know the truth...what does it matter if your m'n'law does not know the truth what would it really change?

That's lucky or you might have lost it by now, it does sound hard work. 🤣

@VDisappointing wise advice.

I'm not sure I understand. You love her and like her spending time with the DC. She has an excellent close relationship with the Dc and they with her presumably?
It sounds to me like this is simply a language issue. I'm a granny and I'm very worried about 'pushing in where I'm not wanted' but adore my DC and DGC. Perhaps the offer to 'help' is simply her way of asking if she can be involved and to be with you and the DC?
If she's a little insecure it's much easier to pretend to herself it's about 'helping' rather than indulging herself.
Please be happy you've all got such great relationships. There are some things only grannies know to pass on 🥰🥰

I think you are being a bit unkind actually. As Remus says its just semantics. If anything I think you sound more martyrish in your determination that you don't need help. Which i'm sure you don't but still. You are very lucky to have a kind and caring MIL who wants to spend time with you and your children. Everyone can be a bit irritating at times - i'm sure even you can (I know I can lol) but she isn't really doing anything wrong here. And if it helps her to feel a bit needed is that such a bad thing anyway?

It sounds to me like this is simply a language issue. I'm a granny and I'm very worried about 'pushing in where I'm not wanted' but adore my DC and DGC. Perhaps the offer to 'help' is simply her way of asking if she can be involved and to be with you and the DC?
If she's a little insecure it's much easier to pretend to herself it's about 'helping' rather than indulging herself.

I think there's an element of that, too. MN is full of posters who resent their in-laws popping round or wanting to be invited to stuff. So I think grandmothers with DILs are likely to worry a bit about NOT being seen as useful or helpful.

Even as a grandparent who is the mother of the mother of my DGCs, I'm careful not to intrude, and I instinctively offer to help. A pp complained that when she invited her MIL to come to the child's birthday party, MIL tried to help. Isn't that normal though? How many threads have their been about MILs who just 'turn up and expect to be waited on'? Quite a lot I reckon.

The grandparent role can be tricky, and ten times more so if you're the MIL, judging by MN posts. So maybe she is just trying to make sure she's not seen as being entitled.

@saraclara It was more that my MIL just saw herself as being there to help - as a favour to me - and wasn’t there for the pleasure of being there - which is what she’d been invited for. Though in retrospect small kids parties aren’t that fun - and are quite loud.

@PimpMyFridge Your original post was very much a sweeping, 'These ladies' comment but okay.

I do understand that it’s hard to get it right as a grandparent though, and get the balance right between being too involved and too uninvolved.

Ahhh ok.
That's the trouble with off the cuff writing, sometimes ones intentions aren't conveyed as well as a further edit and sense check would do. In my head 'these ladies' were people who struggled with the transition to different life stages and roles because of past life experience.. whereas it would likely be read as 'all grannies'