Do I chat to son's gf about this?

[IntoDeepBlueSea]

I've put in a ton of detail, if anyone can be bothered, but first the thing that I'm asking about:

My DS is nearly 18, v mature for his years, has a lovely gf who was a good friend for a year, and now gf for more than 6 months. She's about 4 months younger than ds, but also 17.

They're both hard working (uni and jobs) and I'm impressed by how they have handled the couple of problems/ arguments they've had.

She was at a church young adults evening last week (she often goes). DS texted to see how her day had gone. She said she was wiped out, but at least another hour before her ride could take her home. Not far away, DS offered to pick her up and drop her home. She was very grateful. DS was back home in half an hour, by 10pm.

Apparently her dad was angry when she got home, about DS giving her a lift home and gave her the silent treatment for at least 3 days. Still not clear whether it was:
1 - she asked ds, not her dad
2 - that she left church thing early
3 - being out with her boyfriend when dad didn't know she was (for all of 10 minutes).

When she asked what was wrong, he said, (I kid you not) "you should know, and if you don't, that's part of the problem".

WTAF

I want to just quietly say to GF that if she needs anything, I'm here?

If it was any other woman, I'd just say it. I'm good at compartmentalising, and would not really see this as connected to DS, but of course it is.

TL:DR
I know her parents were talking about separating last year, but that didn't happen in the end, but clearly her mum and brother have to deal with this too.

Plenty of other examples, but this was directly about my ds, and I'd just been thinking how sweet it was that he had done that.

GF is already in her 2nd year at uni, despite her young age (DS in 1st year) works hard at that, has a job too, and is required to attend at least 2 church occasions a week. At least Sunday service and bible study during the week. And up to her if she wants to go to young adults evening too. that's actually something she enjoys as lots of old school friends there, and it's really a social club type thing.

DS commented early on that she always wanted to do something he suggests, and finds it very hard to say what she wants out loud. He told me because he was confused. Not used to women not having an opinion!

The other day, I was making dinner, and because she had brought over a cake she had decorated for their six months (!) I cooked with them in mind, and asked whether she liked my plan for dinner, and if there's anything she doesn't like. She kept looking to DS but eventually said it sounded great. I then mentioned I was going to include mushrooms, was that OK. She said yes. DS looked baffled and said "but you don't like mushrooms!". She agreed she didn't. To be clear, normally they just get a plate of something, or they cook for all of us. She usually has to be home by 8pm.

This is just background, but I suppose I'm worried about what she deals with on a daily basis. It's up to her and DS to deal with her constant acquiescence.

DS has said she really likes me, and cares what I think, which is great, I suspect she just hasn't seen a mum who treats her child as a young adult, and laughs, and isn't regimented. She knows however, that I'm in no way a "cool mum" and have a few non negotiable rules, expectations I suppose.

So far, the parents have always thought ds was a good thing. He spends time there (in the living room, as a family), and I can't see what he/ they did wrong?

@HeiXiong Honestly? I think OP is weirdly involved in the child’s life and if she was supposed to be at a social group and then returned with her bf who wasn’t there I’m not surprised her Dad thought it was odd. Perhaps OPs son isn’t who he’d like driving his daughter around? Perhaps he’s a boy racer or his car is dilapidated or the dad thinks he’s not the sort of young man he’d like his daughter alone in a car with? We don’t know do we? What we do know is they’ve facilitated her going to Uni two years early and so are unlikely to be particularly clingy/anxious. Was he “giving her the silent treatment” or did the dd just say he was annoyed with her, or hadn’t talked to her about it? Was she just saying that because she felt embarrassed that ds was the issue?
I don’t think it’s at all unusual not to want your 17 year old daughter driving round with her 17 year old boyfriend instead of being at a group social event.
While I’m not religious myself mass on Sunday and a bible study group doesn’t sound particularly arduous and she obviously likes going to meet up with her old friends.

They didn’t drive around though did they?
he brought her straight home. The OP clearly says he was back home within half an hour.

And if her parents were concerned they could perhaps use their words to raise those concerns rather than silently sulk for days. I’m surprised that if the OP’s son is such a bad influence as you’ve imagined that they’ve continued to let her spend time with him at the OP’s house on a regular basis? It kind of indicates that he isn’t doesn’t it?

yes she’s at uni - that shows that she’s smart and has been likely hothoused. It indicates parental pressure rather than support at such a young age. As someone who works in academia I’d have advised her to take a gap year and develop emotionally in line with her peers so that she could make the most of her university experience rather than rushing through it at such a young age.

you’ve made up a whole lot of unpleasant negative ‘justifications’ about the OP and her son to excuse what sounds like emotional abuse. Why do you feel the need to do that? Why would you create an unpleasant fictional narrative in response to a parent raising genuine concerns about a young woman’s behaviour and treatment?

which part of the OP’s behaviour specifically suggests ‘weird involvement’ ?

My friends DD was in uni (abroad) at 16, she got a sports scholarship and went to a US uni.

Anyway OP yes I would speak to her. I came from an abusive household and at 17, I finally saw (in my boyfriends family) what a normal (kind, supportive, pleasant) family should look like.

They saved me from a horrendous environment and I’m deeply grateful even 20+ years later.

If you have concerns then talk to her, one of my biggest frustrations as an adult is how so many of the adults around me either looked the other way or chose not to see what was happening to me.

It's because he thinks she left the church thing earlier than said, and spent time alone with her bf. Probably thinks she left early to.spend time with the boyfriend, fooling around in the car. The dad wanted to pick her up himself from church.

May be her father is just worried that is she spends unacounted time for alone with a boyfriend, might get pregnant and apparently he tries to prevent such a thing happening

@HeiXiong What I was trying to point out was we don’t know why they behaved like that, but that 17 year old not being at social group but instead out with bf is fairly unlikely to get a great response from parents. My extrapolation of the information provided isn’t less likely than OPs. I have no idea how it works where OP is but “a year out” isn’t an option at 15/16/17 in the UK really. You are expected to be in full time education till you are adult.

Yes I can totally see how it’s responsible parenting to give your daughter the silent treatment for 3 days in an effort to stop her getting pregnant by accepting a lift home from church

It’s a totally logical approach 🙄

the abuse-excusers are out in force today!

I agree with a pp. You are way too over invested in this. Leave them to sort their own issues out

To a limit. Otherwise think what you are saying .....

No you’re expected to be in full time education until 18 in England, not the UK.
and you can substitute that for volunteering or a part time job.

Regardless, how does them supporting her being at uni demonstrate that they’re not ‘clingy/anxious’ as a PP said if it’s a legal requirement and they have no choice ?
It doesn’t

she also wasn’t ‘out’ with her boyfriend. She was in transit to her home for less that 15 minutes (since the bf did a round trip in under half a hour) because she felt unwell.

you clearly think your 17 year old child getting a short lift home because they feel unwell is a valid reason to not speak to them for 3 days.

I’m happy to disagree with you on that

I think you are being very caring and kind to want to help.
My DS had a girlfriend with a father who regularly gave her and his wife the silent treatment.
I bought her the book, Why Do They Do That? by Lundy Bancroft, and gave it to her after she told me about the abuse.

I don't think you sound over-invested OP, I think you sound very kind.

I agree with a PP, unfortunately I'm not sure there's not much you can do about her family (unfortunately ) but you can make your own home as welcoming as possible, and encourage her to be able to speak her mind with you, even if it's just about what food she doesn't like.

There’s a documentary just out I believe on Amazon called shiny happy people based around American Christian fundamentalism and the IBLP/Duggar/patriarchal way of life OP you might find it eye opening.

I became interested in the subject after hosting someone from a very religious North American background, it is really jaw dropping and eye opening how controlling those environments can be for young women. The fact that they pitch this as ‘for their own good/their purity/for God’ reminds me of the Magdalene laundry scandals.

There are a lot of crazily controlling people in this world who latch on the the vehicle of religion as a perfect outlet to control everything. The older I get the more I see massive similarities between the most conveniently devout expressions of most major religions as a way to promote some men’s power and subjugate women.

I agree with this ^^.
If the OP says the academic year starts in January I assume that she is in the southern hemisphere - Australia/New Zealand/South Africa?

OP, I know what you mean about spidey senses. Same when I read it. Silent treatment and ‘If you don’t know then I can’t tell you’ are straight out of the controlling parents’ playbook. My dad used to like ‘you’ve been seen.’ Where, doing what, by whom? No answers were ever forthcoming. Just a neat way of reminding us we were guilty of something and even out in public we weren’t free. My siblings and I still joke to one another if we say we’ve been somewhere - ‘ I know, you’ve been seen.’ It’s darkly funny now, but it’s a horrible way to develop into adulthood, under the long shadow of irrationality and suspicion, cast by the one person who’s supposed to support you.

So I also see that mushroom incident as supporting evidence that she’s used to being completely controlled, in thought and deed; when I was her age I was too cowed to open my mouth. Clearly if it was only that you might think she was just an unusually polite young lassie.

I suspect her father thinks because she wasn’t where he expected her to be, and turned up with DS, she’s been doing something he didn’t want her to be doing (probably involving physical intimacy).

I’ve been thinking about what helped us. People who understood but didn’t speak about it overtly were a huge boon. I had the occasional adult saying ‘just tell them they’re being unreasonable’ but they didn’t know shit, to be brutally honest. My best mate’s mum thought my parents were way out of line and doing me damage. I only knew this later on, when I was out of the house, and she told me she’d have lied for me at the drop of a hat if I’d asked her to. Even then, I felt embarrassed and sort of judged (not rational, but I hear it’s not uncommon for people who’ve had complicated upbringings to feel that way). What was so helpful, as other posters have said, was to be in a house where we could see normality. Painful at times, when you realised how messed up your own situation was, but valuable. As a middle-aged women I still use my best pal’s parents as my model for how to react to my own kids at times, because the example my parents set was so wide of the middle, has left me with a lot of damage to deal with, and I don’t wholly trust my own mum-brain at times. You might end up being that person for her.

Personally, I’d frame it to DS that her parents are unusually strict but such families do exist and his GF needs to take the lead on any discussion. I would do what you do, a watching brief. My slight fear would be if you say exactly what you’re thinking to him, your DS, as a kind and independent young man, might feel compelled to ‘save her’ or somehow act in opposition to them, and that’d be another problem for her to solve. Of course, you know him, he might be totally capable of grasping that being emotionally involved with someone in this situation is a tricky line to walk. It’s really good she found someone like him (and you). As she’s already in second year, the time will soon come that she’ll be able to find her voice and choose her own path.

Also, for people wondering about the timelines, I was also in second year uni before I was eighteen (left school at sixteen and a half, graduated at twenty, living five hundred miles away from them by twenty one (is it a coincidence, I dunno!))

Don’t agree. I think you sound like an amazing MIL to be.
sometimes your own family can’t give you the love you deserve and you get it somewhere else you were destined to be.
bravo to you OP for being who you are

yes tell her you’re there for her but just be wary you can’t do much in regards to her parents. It would make things v difficult if she went back and told them she tells you all her problems with her parents and you agree/support her.
Just be her safe place (but with your son asthe gatekeeper) as you are.

my DH has parents like this and he found some peace in coming over to my parents’ who shower him with more love than his own ever have.

Her dad sounds exactly like my dad.

He was really really strict with me and long term BF (still together now). No sleepovers even after 8 years plus of being together, we had to book trips away or say I was staying in a friends house. If was on a night out say age 19/20 if I came home late there would be ructions the next day.

He loved my BF but it was partly a “respect” thing (his words) and fear of pregnancy happening before being ready. I used to feel awful on BF because he felt like my dad hated him or didn’t trust him which wasn’t the case, he was too scared of what would happen if he wasn’t in control of me.

We ended up moving out at about age 24/25 as it was the only logical option to be able to act like adults.

My MIL/FIL are complete opposites. Very trusting of their kids, treated me like one of their own - said they’d reassure my dad we’d be in separate beds etc but it was useless. I often wonder what they thought of my dad because he must of seemed nuts to them.

Adelaide66 · Today 05:31
Every family is different. We have to respect that fact.”

Not if they’re controlling, religious fanatics we don’t.

I'm in ROI and I was 17 throughout my 1st Yr, turned 18 during exams.. I was 19 in my final year (3rd) turning 20 at the end. I did an extra year post grad and was working in FT employment and financially independent 3 weeks after my 21st. Not that it got me anywhere...had a crappy career 😀. My parents were v strict not same degree as GF here but I had a lot of issues 1st Yr in Uni as I often wasn't allowed to do things by my parents or wasn't able to get in due to being legally underage.

Sorry that was off topic - OP I think its great you are concerned for this girl and I think she may need a sensible adult in her life to guide her sometimes. Extreme religious people in my experience put their own views and reputation within the community way above needs of their kids, sadly love is conditional and all about control.

Some bonkers responses here! You sound perfectly normal. It could be a bad situation, and a quiet “I’m here for you” word doesn’t do much harm. Good luck.

That does sound controlling. But I don’t think blatantly saying so to her will help. You can at a certain point ask open ended questions if you think the behaviour goes too far for example. Unless there’s actual abuse, I wouldn’t go further than the “ok (shrug) I would maybe do that differently”.

Do remember she will probably be treated the same way for some years to come and has to go home to her parents every night. If she accidentally blabs that you’ve said something about them, that’s her support structure evaporated. And make no mistake, they’ll double down. And also remember however controlling they are in some ways, in others, they may be very loving.

Largely, albeit controlling, this is to do with differing parental styles and it’s a difficult line to toe. My dd’s friends with more authoritarian parents know that I would deal with things differently from their parents. I don’t even need to say. It sounds as if your ds’s gf can see the same.

Be friendly, bright, breezy. Let her know that she’s allowed a voice in your home. Be matter of fact if the subject arises how different in her parent’s home.

Perhaps the relationship with your ds will last and maybe it won’t. You don’t really want her to be dependent on you if it doesn’t. It will be awkward. And your role should be nothing more than to show her things can be different so that she can figure things out for herself. If they stay together, you can re-evaluate this. She’ll be an adult by then in any case.

If anything in the meantime arises and she’s concerned her parents will discover something you know and they don’t and presuming it’s not a safeguarding issue, you can reassure her the secret is safe with you. But as she’s still a child right now, perhaps she shouldn’t do x again.

Is she allowed in the car with ds by herself? That's the only thing I can think of... That her DF didn't know she had left and was unhappy she was with her bf. Perhaps concerned she had skipped the whole thing?

Thank you so much for all the helpful and supportive posts, lots for me to work through. Meanwhile, just on the DS driving her thing, they have no problem with her coming home at unknown times, as long as it’s before a time the dad has given.

They both work at the same shopping centre, and they often hang out for a bit afterwards, and DS will then drive her home. No problem with that.

I did wonder the other day if the dad actually thinks her chastity is only in mortal peril once night falls… truly, it seems to be something about a magic number, whether it’s 5pm, 8pm, or 10pm. They have no problem with her spending the night at a friend’s house when they have a party, even though they know DS is attending the party. I don’t know, it’s very inconsistent. Anyway, just not how my brain works.

it would be completely inappropriate to say out loud that I’m concerned about her, and I do think that it’s more useful that she just sees we are different. I would never want to be a reason for the control to ramp up, and for her to end up in a more difficult situation. As some have said, she has had one eye on leaving for quite some time, but doesn’t want to leave her younger sibling to deal with all the parent stuff.