Do I chat to son's gf about this?

[IntoDeepBlueSea]

I've put in a ton of detail, if anyone can be bothered, but first the thing that I'm asking about:

My DS is nearly 18, v mature for his years, has a lovely gf who was a good friend for a year, and now gf for more than 6 months. She's about 4 months younger than ds, but also 17.

They're both hard working (uni and jobs) and I'm impressed by how they have handled the couple of problems/ arguments they've had.

She was at a church young adults evening last week (she often goes). DS texted to see how her day had gone. She said she was wiped out, but at least another hour before her ride could take her home. Not far away, DS offered to pick her up and drop her home. She was very grateful. DS was back home in half an hour, by 10pm.

Apparently her dad was angry when she got home, about DS giving her a lift home and gave her the silent treatment for at least 3 days. Still not clear whether it was:
1 - she asked ds, not her dad
2 - that she left church thing early
3 - being out with her boyfriend when dad didn't know she was (for all of 10 minutes).

When she asked what was wrong, he said, (I kid you not) "you should know, and if you don't, that's part of the problem".

WTAF

I want to just quietly say to GF that if she needs anything, I'm here?

If it was any other woman, I'd just say it. I'm good at compartmentalising, and would not really see this as connected to DS, but of course it is.

TL:DR
I know her parents were talking about separating last year, but that didn't happen in the end, but clearly her mum and brother have to deal with this too.

Plenty of other examples, but this was directly about my ds, and I'd just been thinking how sweet it was that he had done that.

GF is already in her 2nd year at uni, despite her young age (DS in 1st year) works hard at that, has a job too, and is required to attend at least 2 church occasions a week. At least Sunday service and bible study during the week. And up to her if she wants to go to young adults evening too. that's actually something she enjoys as lots of old school friends there, and it's really a social club type thing.

DS commented early on that she always wanted to do something he suggests, and finds it very hard to say what she wants out loud. He told me because he was confused. Not used to women not having an opinion!

The other day, I was making dinner, and because she had brought over a cake she had decorated for their six months (!) I cooked with them in mind, and asked whether she liked my plan for dinner, and if there's anything she doesn't like. She kept looking to DS but eventually said it sounded great. I then mentioned I was going to include mushrooms, was that OK. She said yes. DS looked baffled and said "but you don't like mushrooms!". She agreed she didn't. To be clear, normally they just get a plate of something, or they cook for all of us. She usually has to be home by 8pm.

This is just background, but I suppose I'm worried about what she deals with on a daily basis. It's up to her and DS to deal with her constant acquiescence.

DS has said she really likes me, and cares what I think, which is great, I suspect she just hasn't seen a mum who treats her child as a young adult, and laughs, and isn't regimented. She knows however, that I'm in no way a "cool mum" and have a few non negotiable rules, expectations I suppose.

So far, the parents have always thought ds was a good thing. He spends time there (in the living room, as a family), and I can't see what he/ they did wrong?

Do not add drama to her life. You are projecting on to her and making this about you. I would just leave your son to be the one to support her at this stage. They can ask for help if they need it.

She probably won't be able to fully start to detach from her parents and their expectations/rules until she leaves home. Do you have any idea when that is likely to be? (Post university I'd assume if she's still at home now?)

My parents were strict, and religious, and they sound less controlling (and were otherwise pretty fantastic, lots of love and attention and support etc)...but I'm late twenties and still unravelling some of the difficulties they left me with (via counselling). It has an impact on romantic relationships although far less now than it did in my early twenties.

She has to want to have a different life, and be willing to risk her relationship with her parents for that - and that's very very hard to do when you're young and don't know whether the boyfriend you're "risking" it for is going to be long term. (Obviously what you're actually doing it for is yourself and your own life, but if most of their expectations are around how romantic relationships progress - as was the case for my parents - it does end up feeling like you're pushing back for your relationship rather than yourself).

But also you sound lovely and the parents of friends and boyfriends when I was younger who would discuss how strict my parents were and commiserate with me were my favourites (even though they always said "just talk to them!" and clearly didn't get it - doesn't work at 28 living separately, never would have worked at 16 living under their roof!)

There's no harm letting her know you are an adult she can talk to.

Missing the the point entirely, how did you raise your son to be so self-sufficient? What are your tips?

Sounds like she has a very controlling family. Her Dad likely suspected sexual contact of some form, hence the silent treatment.

She has to walk her own path but nothing wrong with showing her what assertiveness and independence are like through your own actions.

You don't sound over invested to me OP, you sound worried about a complicated situation.

I don't know what the answer is though.

Her DF sounds very controlling but you sound lovely and it looks like she does talk to your DS. She is going to uni, getting qualifications and getting work experience. Hopefully she will leave home soon when she graduates and carve her own path then. Just encourage her decision making in the small things and don't restrict her freedom.

I think you sounds like a great mum.
I'd probably have a quiet word with her, say you're there for her if she needs to talk, and encourage her to voice her likes and dislikes.

I'd talk to your ds about her controlling dad too. He sounds awful.

Your instincts do sounds right. There are signs that she's used to a very controlling environment. And it sounds very difficult for her to voice an opinion.

If you want to say something to her, I would keep it brief and to the point. Maybe I can see that your family has very different values to us and you will soon be 18 years old. Under our laws, you will be an adult then (if that's true or whatever relates). If you ever need to talk about home or need anything, I am here for you, too, not just my DS.

Then, never mention it again. It might take her years to realise that you are right and that she deserves better treatment.

I would say also that if she does even talk to you, try to encourage her to seek help from university and other services so that she can get counselling and as much independence as possible.

I don't think you sound over invested at all op, but I also think you have to be careful as she is still only 17 and obviously very reliant on her parents. I think its fine to be a friend and defacto mother in law to her, and try to encourage her to speak up for herself in your home, be someone to talk to etc and offer advice. I don't think you should push too much about her homelife though. Her father does sound overbearing and overprotective, but some parents are.

Totally agree.

I started uni at 17 in Scotland and my friend went a year before me at 16 almost 17

You sound lovely.
Only on mn can you be accused of being overly invested for noticing behaviour/ situations that feel "off" and caring enough to want to help.
As for the question of how she in her 2nd year at uni at 17, ops tend to scroll posts until they can find an anomaly so they can imply your lying or a troll, so sad that they have nothing useful to add.
My DC have had partners and friends who I've got to know very well due to them being in and out of our house.
If I was concerned about one of them I'd step in.
I would approach the gf, have a chat, let her know that I'm there for her if she ever wants to talk about anything, I might not directly explain my concerns, I'd see how she reacts first.
You keep doing you op, she's lucky that you've got her back even if she doesn't realise it yet.

I want to just quietly say to GF that if she needs anything, I'm here^^

Yes, say this. You don't sound over invested. Her dad sounds difficult. Don't over think it, just be friendly.

No we don't. We never have to respect controlling, domineering men.

OP, part of growing up is getting to know families who operate differently from your own and adjusting your values if you choose. Just let her know she is encouraged to speak her mind in your home.

Hi OP I don’t think you’re over invested either and I am impressed by your sons level of self organisation!

I do think though that it isn’t really your place to say anything to the girlfriend about the situation, just make your home as welcome as you can.

If your son asks for advice on it all then I think it’s fair enough to tell him what you think.

Family’s are weird, I dated someone once with an abusive mum but he wouldn’t hear a cross word against her even though he know it was messed up and wrong.

I wouldn’t read too much into the food thing though. It probably took a year of living with my DH for me to actually learn which foods he didn’t like. Many years later I’m pretty sure he would still happily accept and eat any meal that his MIL cooks regardless of if he likes it or not and he comes from a very loving home.

I would throw the ‘you’re too invested’ posts in the bin and let her know you’re there if she ever needs someone outside family to talk to. You sound absolutely lovely and caring.

I also don't think you are overly invested. I grew up in a similar environment, not so much controlling but made to go to church, traditional values etc, and I realised years later I was scared to say what I thought. I left home at 18 and that's when I started to become my own person. I met my now husband who had the complete opposite upbringing to me and it taught me so much. However I still battle with confidence 16 years later, but my husband has taught me so much and really backed me and given me the confidence in situations where I never would have thought. I became fiercely independent when I left home (this was my own doing, I'm actually more independent than my husband) and I think my parents always resented how independent I was and didn't "need" them. For context my siblings are still to this day much more dependent on my parents so I'm much more the black sheep.

I wouldn't say too much to her tbh, your actions speak louder than words. If they stay together, she'll develop her relationship with you and she'll know that you are there. I still have a good relationship with my parents, albeit aware of their mistakes and I now am actively parenting in a different way - we don't have the best relationship, (and I'm pretty sure they don't think much of my husband but that stems back to us moving in together after uni, pre marriage). We live a plane ride away from them so I have distance.

Is she planning on moving out? If so I would say she's on the precipice of finding her own self. It might be that you have to be supportive and encourage this idea if for example she wants to move out, but her parents don't want her to? For ref my parents were happy for me to move out etc, they just wanted me to live life the way they did - no sex before marriage, marry young etc, and marry a man like my dad, continue with church.

I don't think you are over-invested, either. You are worried, and I think your concerns are justified. Sounds like the Dad is very controlling.

Maybe just the " here if you need me" approach might be best?

I don’t honestly see what you’re worried about? She’s religious and socialises with her friends from childhood through her church. She is a child and lives at home with her parents who like her to be home by 8. She is happy to go along with others plans and not pushy about what you cook her in your house. Sounds utterly unremarkable and your childhood leaving home at 17 etc doesn’t sound intrinsically better.

I think that you sound absolutely lovely and concerned about a young girl. My instinct would be not to say anything specific about her home situation to her. She may become defensive of her family and then the relationship with you could founder, which is not your intention. Continue to gently encourage her to have her own views at your house.

Oh I was thinking she sounds concerned for this clearly very level headed young lady who has a massively controlling parent.

It sounds like her home life is difficult if not poss abusive. So I don't think you are overly invested in their relationship but are invested in a young person you care about.

I'd talk to your son first about your concerns and aks him his perspective on talking to his girlfriend. But it's great you want to support her.

We have to respect emotional abuse and coercive control @Adelaide66 ?
actually we don’t
its illegal and unhealthy.

@IntoDeepBlueSea I think you’re right to be concerned. If I were you I’d ensure she feels welcome anytime whether DS is there or not. Give her plenty of affirmation and reassurance that you want to hear her thoughts and opinions and support her to find her voice.

one of my boyfriends mums did that for me when I was 17 and it was life-changing.

You don’t think a young woman who is totally acquiescent in the face of adults regardless of her own likes and dislikes and whose parents punish her with days of silent treatment for imagined misdemeanours might be a victim of emotional abuse?

you think that’s unremarkable?