Should debating / public speaking be taught in all schools, to all students?

[Chocchops72]

Just been listening to Alistair Campbell talking about his new book and arguing that children in state schools should be learning debating skills and public speaking, as is the case in private schools.

I’m in France, with two teens in the state school system. Public speaking skills are absolutely part of the curriculum here. As soon as they could read, they’ve had to learn multiple poems by heart, and to recite them perfectly in front of the class. over the users they’ve done countless oral presentations in class. Both the main exams (brevet at age 15, baccalaureate age 18) have a separate oral exam as well as the written / continuous assessment components. The Grand Oral, which is part of the baccalaureate, is a major component of their final mark and taken very seriously.

It’s just seen as a perfectly normal part of education here. Putting together an argument or opinion and expressing it verbally. And being able to do it in front of a group. Even my otherwise very very shy youngest just gets on with it without much prodding.

what do you think? would you or your children have benefitted / would benefit from public speaking being part of the curriculum?

SertralineAndTherapy · Today 17:19

It's very useful as an exercise, but too much of the "presenting it from a side assigned at random" only drives students to believe that (a) all viewpoints are equally acceptable, and consequently (b) good arguments can and must be found to defend the indefensible

“b) good arguments can and must be found to defend the indefensible”

What clever barristers do with rapists they are defending, for example.

Or how salesmen sell things.

Think of Boris(Cummings) and Brexit.

It is considered a valuable skill.

I agree, DS1 was in debating club at school and DS2 did public speaking (LAMDA I think?) in 6th form. Both of them are argumentative little sods anyway though

@ScrollingLeaves Yes, debating is very good for producing lawyers and politicians! Whether that is desirable is another matter.

No.
But I do think basic healthcare should be taught. Things like the difference between viral and bacteria infections. Why viral infections don’t need antibiotics. Why vaccines are needed. How to recognise and treat minor illnesses and childhood illnesses. Common diseases like diabetes, heart disease, cancer and how to reduce risk. Safe use of paracetamol and ibuprofen (and why you don’t need to waste money on shiny packets of neurofen). When to go to A&E. How our health system works.

Oh no. Kids don't need more humiliation. I couldn't have done it as a teen in the 80s.

Wow lots more responses than I expected.

i agree that AC is not necessarily the greatest example. I listen to his Politics podcast and find him overbearing, interrupts too much, too dismissive of any opinion other than his own. But maybe that’s the point: to stand up to people like him takes skill and experience.

my kids have only been schooled in France so that’s the only system I know. It is indeed … robust. But undoubtedly the ability to speak out, speak clearly, to make your case verbally is considered an important skill - up there with reading and written expression. So by and large they just get on with it, even my shy 12 yr old is unfazed by speaking out in class. He’s been doing it since he was 6 yrs - memorising poems and reciting them solo in class.

neither of them are SEN though, I agree that makes a difference, and France is no model to follow in that respect.

The spoken component to GCSE English is a bit odd. It doesn’t actually count towards their final grade, but they have to do it to obtain their grades. In essence you can pass with a mumbled conversation.

I think people forget that you can teach a skill but not everyone will be able to do that skill very well.

I have my views about Alastair, but he can be a compelling speaker and can certainly debate.

In this I agree with him. It's highly likely people will not progress in their chosen field if they cannot articulate their point, be persuasive, measured or intelligently, confidently and convincingly negate argument.

I have learned it on the job, but I certainly have benefited from opportunities at school.

Pupils in state schools do loads of speaking tasks and it forms a weirdly ungraded part of GCSE (they get a grade but it doesn't go towards the overall grade).

Not all state schools, we don’t do many speaking tasks.

I’m not sure if my dc did anything like this at school but they learned to say “and your point is?” in an arch manner from somewhere.

isn't this an extention of pre-school 'show and tell'?

Debating will involve a lot more.

I remember when dd1 joined debate club she wiped the floor with me in heated discussions!

I think it should be, and not just the current GCSE English Language speaking and listening that doesn't really count for anything.

I hate teaching speaking and listening at the moment because the level of stress and drama that comes with it is ridiculous in my opinion. If students were used to speaking and learning how to disagree academically and politely it makes a bit difference

It was never offered at my private school, only in my brief time at a state school when I was around 10.

As parents it hasn't been on offer either, but easy enough for the parents to coach, or find coaching, and enter one of the many local and national competitions or festivals for young people.

We did public speaking when I was at school - 1970s comp.

The state school taught the public speaking really well (excellent caring school with dedicated teachers) with competition involved. It gave me a taste for it and made me want my own children to experience it.

The next time I did any debate or public speaking was university, the first time for many.

But it’s not an exercise in humiliation.
It’s designed to give you the skills to speak in public. Of course it will be uncomfortable at first but it gets better with practice. The key is to start at primary age when children are less self conscious so that by the time you’re a teen it’s easier.

Many years ago, our all-girls' school had speech competitions as part of the English curriculum. We also had both French and Latin speaking competitions.
One of the lads I taught some time ago won the NATIONAL Maori, Japanese and English speech comps in the same year. He was an absolutely brilliant orator on the paepae.

What you are essential saying is, should skills be taught and space to do it that young people are able to air their views... ABSOLUTELY. Of course

It already happens. However pupils with SEN should be exempt. Personally I think the way to build
confidence is gentle encouragement and praise and not forcing someone to do something they aren’t comfortable with. Speaking about your chosen career is totally different to being assigned a random debate subject to perform in front of your school class. And it’s very possible to have a career without public speaking. It would be a better world if we accepted people are different, we don’t all like the same things and concentrated on encouraging strengths and interests.

Being able to speak confidently in front of people on a range of subject would be a massive boon to all students, including SEN students.

I can't think of a career where being a confident public speaker would not give you an advantage over someone who is not a confident public speaker.

Exactly. We need a better awareness and acceptance of our differences.

There was a thread on here recently about sports day and how it affects various children differently. I’m sure a lot of children could struggle, especially those with SEN, and May end up have lifelong negative memories of public speaking similar to how some do for sports day if it’s run in a certain way.

Yep, I think predictably a lot of middle class parents easily recognise the possible humiliation for certain kids having to do sports day but can’t see it when it comes to public speaking. I’m glad I wasn’t pushed into public speaking, it wouldn’t have worked out for me or for other neurodivergent / SEN students. Now as an adults I have been able to work myself up to successfully present to hundreds of people.

School isn’t always a super safe place to all kids to be able to try and fail and try again.

A very good idea as long as its done fairly to include all.

We had debating at my comprehensive school, but only a very small minority actually took park. The rest of us listened..