Should debating / public speaking be taught in all schools, to all students?

[Chocchops72]

Just been listening to Alistair Campbell talking about his new book and arguing that children in state schools should be learning debating skills and public speaking, as is the case in private schools.

I’m in France, with two teens in the state school system. Public speaking skills are absolutely part of the curriculum here. As soon as they could read, they’ve had to learn multiple poems by heart, and to recite them perfectly in front of the class. over the users they’ve done countless oral presentations in class. Both the main exams (brevet at age 15, baccalaureate age 18) have a separate oral exam as well as the written / continuous assessment components. The Grand Oral, which is part of the baccalaureate, is a major component of their final mark and taken very seriously.

It’s just seen as a perfectly normal part of education here. Putting together an argument or opinion and expressing it verbally. And being able to do it in front of a group. Even my otherwise very very shy youngest just gets on with it without much prodding.

what do you think? would you or your children have benefitted / would benefit from public speaking being part of the curriculum?

GCSE English has a speaking assessment.

I think drama is a really good subject to prepare kids for things like public speaking.

I was in a debate club at school but I don't know how useful it was

There are a large number of children in mainstream education who have sen and struggle to get through the curriculum as it is. This could make it a far harder experience for them. There are public speaking courses you can do or schools that offer it, if it’s that important to you. I don’t think it should be part of the curriculum.

Yes!!! This is a brilliant idea OP. I went to a bog standard comprehensive in the 80s/90s, but the school employed a speech therapist and she ran private lessons in public speaking which my parents signed me up to. I did competitions and really enjoyed it.

In my adult life I find many of my colleagues are crippled with anxiety at the mere thought of giving presentations etc whereas I quite enjoy it - don't get me wrong, I'm not immune from nerves - but once I get going I'm fine. I encourage this in my own children and they attend drama groups which are also brilliant for confidence building.

Yes, of course they should be an inherent part of formal education.

But learning how to express oneself through speech is something children deserve to experience first at home - through bedtime reading and conversation around the dining table. It’s a basic part of a parent’s responsibility to actually converse with their children.

Some state schools offer it as an extracurricular activity

Our dc’s Welsh Medium school does. In Welsh and English.

Alastair Campbell often loses his temper - that’s not what I call debating so maybe he should take his own advice.

I did public speaking/ debating in an ordinary girls school in the seventies. My dd did too

Persuasive language components, including training in soft skills like presentations, public speaking and debating are already in the English syllabus in most schools. In terms of cross-curricular work, English, History, Sociology, Politics, and probably others, all include a study of language and how that language is used as a matter of course. That it's not couched in terms of an Oxford debate with a "this house believes" slant, doesn't mean it's not done.

No, I don’t. I think public speaking/debating is a rather different skill to expressing yourself clearly in a group situation at school or work or giving a presentation.

My younger child (in her 20s) is completely unfazed by doing presentations as she has been doing them since primary school.

My elder child has a stammer and while she participated well in class, she would have found public speaking or debating a nightmare.

Debating definitely. Students like it and it develops lots of skills including critical thinking.

I encouraged both my dc to join debate club in school but think it should be more embedded.

I thought all that was quite standard. It was at my state school. We did debates and presentations to the class etc. My DD is only in P2 and they do solo presentations to the class (thought obviously can be quite short). I don’t think it’s so much a case of not having any practice at public speaking, it’s giving kids the confidence to believe that what they have to say is worth hearing. I do public speaking regularly as part of my job, and even after many years I still struggle with that aspect.

Speaking and Listening has been on the English curriculum for years. Students have to do formal public speaking for GCSE (albeit with no marks attached thanks to Gove). My Dept runs a Public Speaking competition for every year group which every single student takes part in. Discussion and debate are key skills in many subjects. My school takes students to the Young Magistrates competition and my DC's school has a debating club. I agree with you that it's an absolutely integral life skill but what makes you think schools don't already teach it?

In my experience, people who've been involved in debating mainly learn to argue either side of the case while making stuff up to support which side of the motion they've been assigned. The idea that there might be any objective truth never enters their heads.

Public speaking is another matter and might be interesting to boost. The French system is notoriously intolerant of any SEND requirements, though. Hmm...

but what makes you think schools don't already teach it?

This is a common problem. Famous person spouting that something 'should be taught in schools' without having done the slightest bit of research into whether it currently is or not. They reckon it isn't, therefore it isn't.

As @NowZeusHasLainWithLeda and others have said, it already is taught in schools as part of the curriculum.
I agree with @MetaDaughter too that some must also be seen as the parents' responsibility.

I don't think debating is a necessary skill but being confident to speak in public is valuable. So that things such as speaking to retail staff, dealing with any authority, if you have children confidently speaking with their teachers, for example.

Many children and indeed adults spend a lot of time only communicating via phones and the internet more widely, and without some teaching/training the basics of simple everyday interactions will not be there.

Ds school very much encourage both debating and public speaking.

really though on the debating side of things a lot of that needs to start from home. Having a home whereby things are openly discussed and differing opinions listened to and respected is key to developing those skills, we need to to demonstrate and encourage debate and discussion

Yes, of course. It's not just about learning public speaking - it's also about realising that it's fine for other people to have a different opinion to them, and that we don't all need to think alike.

Yes, it should. When my dd was at school there was a speaking/listening element in GCSE English.

Yes absolute agree, I have a huge fear of public speaking and I think I probably would have benefited from doing it from a young age.

It's a valuable skill that unfortunately my school didn't help develop at all until A level stage and even then hardly ever at all.

We had some stuff like a speaking section of our English GCSEs but if wasn't the same scale as e.g. debating society or what debating was like at university if you were into that kind of thing.

I managed to come out of school capable of public speaking but without enjoying it. I have made an effort as an adult to accept every opportunity for public speaking I'm offered to reduce my nerves and improve my performance.

I do think normalising it at school is really worthwhile because it does create opportunities as an adult and without a more equal baseline I think it probably forms an advantage for people who attended schools where it was strongly encouraged beyond the required GCSE elements vs where it was not?

Yes, i rarely got chances to speak in school and thought I hated it. My first boss pushed me into it and now I would cheerily speak to 100s of people without a second thought.

I paid for all my to do drama classes as I felt they don't get anywhere near enough chances at state school (and one is doing lamda qualifications now as well. )

That's such a good point too. And how to argue rationally and logically.

I think drama will suit some kids better, but both options would be ideal.