Surely you can’t refuse?

[beepbops]

I work in marketing. One of my colleagues refuses to do public speaking because it causes them to feel very anxious, tight chest, unable to sleep, sick, the whole works apparently. I understand it can’t be nice and do know how it feels but it places the burden onto other members of the team. It is true and they are great other ways round but reluctant to even give this a go, usually standing up in front of about 20 professionals and rarely can be as many as 100. It’s not often we are asked to do it maybe four or five times a year. I’m not sure it’s fair that exemptions continue to be made for this when a lot of people (myself and other colleagues included) do feel awkward and uncomfortable about doing it too, surely you’d just look for a job that’s not going to involve this if it’s going to cause you so much angst! A quick google tells you it’s one of the most common phobias among adults

But the question is, is it recognised by a GP/Professional and is she medicated. If so it's a reasonable adjustment.

If its just because she gets anxious/nervous prior then she needs to just get on with it, I don't think there's many people that actively enjoy presenting. Anxiety is normal and healthy it's what keeps our fight, flight, freeze responses on form.
What isn't normal and healthy is to be debilitated by it.....

I say that as someone who has diagnosed anxiety..... I'm just getting tired of hearing folk say oh but I've got anxiety and so I can't do xyz of my role. But you will find, those who genuinely suffer but work in pressurised roles will just Don the mask and suck it up.

I suffered with severe anxiety for many years when I was younger and posts like this make me sad because it reminds me how un-empathetic people still are when it comes to mental health issues.

Can't say how many times I've heard "I just don't understand why you're so bothered?" while I've been having an anxiety attack over something stupid like giving a speech. No neither do I Susan, that's the point, it's completely irrational, my mind is betraying me, my monkey brain thinks I'm about to be eaten by a bear and is reacting accordingly.

No one would say to someone with an autoimmune disease "I just don't understand why your white blood cells are attacking your own body and causing you pain, it doesn't make sense!" would they?

Real, actual anxiety is all consuming, crushing and awful. And so often dismissed as "feeling uncomfortable and awkward".

If its only a handful of times a year and your colleague picks up the slack in other ways then I guess I can't really see why you're that bothered by it........,

Whilst I'm very sorry about your trauma, the way op is describing this colleague, it's not a trauma response. It's a scred/nervous response.

I can't imagine being in marketing and not making presentations to clients tbh.

Being medicated isn't relevant.

Well I don't know many people that don't take anything for anxiety that's debilitating..... Why would anyone willfully put their body through that every day!?

OK so she needs a diagnosis..... Or she can get on with her job....which she must have known involved presentations.

glad to have raised some more awareness around this!

well I can’t say for sure in this case, but yes it does sounds likely that removing this from her duties is is classed as a reasonable adjustment. I’ve seen similar in other in the workplace.

I have anxiety. I also have IBS for which one of the biggest triggers is anxiety. I could take an Imodium or two. But they don’t always work. Sometimes they do but can cause severe and extremely noisy wind that I can’t hold in. Trying to, along with feeling anxious, causes me to feel hot, dizzy and feeling like I’m going to faint.

To be blunt I’d risk losing my job rather than stand up in front of lots of people and have either an accident or a loud wind episode! Imagine the shame. Maybe, at a push, I would confide this to a manager. But never in a million years would I tell a colleague. They tell you it’s anxiety but you can’t know how this really affects them. So, while I know this is chat, YABU.

Thank you. And it could be this for all I know too. That sounds horrible and I don’t blame you when you put it that way, at all

Surely there will be people on your team who love it and people who don't? I love public speaking so I do more of it in our team and a couple of people who hate it don't do any. But they will do some more of the things I'm not so good at. Surely in a team not everyone has to do everything?

Tell them to get some propranolol from the doctor. Worked for me!

I'm a nurse specialising in Occupational Health. (I assume you know what we do? Genuine question...many don't understand our role!)

Obviously it would depend on the outcome of an OH assessment and discussion around history, treatment and symptoms but this would definitely be a reasonable adjustment we would recommend to their line manager. (Ask that they are exempt from certain tasks).

This may be temporary until optimal treatment or permanent if they've been assessed several times and treatment hasn't particularly improved their ability to do this one particular thing. Especially if it is a small part of their role.

If the thought of doing this is likely to worsen their overall symptoms and contribute to a deterioration in their health then it may also lead to a sickness absence.

Some may argue that a person with symptoms which affects their ability to do their full role should actually be off sick. But for many it is actually better for their MH to remain in work and in a routine, feeling that they're contributing etc etc. Lots to think about.

It is likely to be an agreed adjustment. Your/their line manager will not be allowed to discuss or confirm this due to confidentiality though.

There are many many people who are considered as being protected by the Equality Act 2010 for all types of health conditions and symptoms.

Please just bear in mind that them being aware of your thoughts on this may very well further impact upon their anxiety/MH.

I do see above that PP have also offered advice which has given you food for thought, so that's great I'm sure in an ideal world they would love to live without anxiety.

There are simple techniques to put you into the right state to present ie take any anxiety away - controlled breathing along with dropping your shoulders and planting your feet. Thry all ground you. It takes practice but it's a quick to learn technique.

Also, practice with PowerPoint is a really great tool.

Finally stop focussing on colleagues who have debilitating conditions that stop them from reaching their optimal development state. Just focus on you and your development.

But the question is, is it recognised by a GP/Professional and is she medicated.

It's no else's business except her manager's. You don't have the right to know or judge the existence or severity of a colleague's anxiety disorder, let alone any medical condition. If reasonable adjustments have been made, that's between the employee and her employer alone. Push it, and you're you're moving into discrimination territory.

I've assessed many people who don't take medication for lots of conditions and symptoms. Lots of different reasons too.

Pain? Many painkillers they've tried either just doesn't work or cause side effects which impact upon their ability to drive to work / think straight etc. So they settle for something which only takes the edge off.

MH symptoms? Side effects of drowsiness the next day. Stigma. Seeing how certain medications have affected other people they know. Weight gain (and yes lots of people don't want to take certain MH meds due to this. Weight gain can also further impact their self esteem).

Many people have a core belief of just not wanting to take medication. And that's ok. My role in OH is not to question that. It's their prerogative tbh.

It may also be that when they got in to the industry they weren't particularly affected by anxiety. Anything can trigger that off. Whether it's a huge and traumatic event (as described by a PP) or something else.

The employer does have a responsibility to provide support and not place them in situations where their health is further impacted. And if they have been assessed as likely being protected under the EA2010 then the employer may be on shaky ground "making" them so something known to worsen their health.

So someone who works in an admin based role, been doing it for years but develops severe arthritis in their hands. Their employer isn't going to demand they type all day. They would be provided with specialist equipment or possibly speech-to-text software so they can do their job. This may make them a bit slower )the software isn't perfect and can be "fiddly" but I would hate to think of their colleagues begrudging them having a lower work output because of their health.

<gets off soapbox>

OP, you sound like a nice person who maybe just didn’t realise how complex your colleagues problem might be. But you seem very open to listening to people’s views and suggestions of what may be causing it. She seems like a good colleague in every other way so hopefully you can take from this thread and cut her some slack over this one issue.

I have been involved in Toastmasters over the years and have seen people with horrific fear of public speaking breakthrough in that positive environment. Some people there told me their boss was gobsmacked as their presentation improved so much. They might be interested in trying it out. It's scary at first but taking that step would soon lead to rewards.

I read about a university student who killed herself the night before she had to be part of a presentation to several hundred other students in a lecture theatre. I think there is ordinary fear and debilitating fear. Unless this colleague is constantly taking the piss in other ways, I'd assume s/he has debilitating fear.

I literally didn't go to university due to fear of having to do presentations!
The idea of attending a graduation ceremony terrified me too. Just walking up in front of people to receive my diploma literally gave me panic attacks - this was before I had done my a levels.
I have ASD and adhd but both were undiagnosed at the time. I still struggle speaking in front of people I don't know.

Anxiety can be absolutely debilitating and has ruined my life. So it absolutely could and should be a reasonable adjustment for some people

This could rise to the level of a disability for your colleague.

it is also possible that your colleague makes excellent contributions to the company and the team in other ways and therefore management simply doesn’t care that public speaking is off the table. I’ve never worked anywhere that tasks were divided equally, they have always been allocated based on strengths or training to further develop promising areas.

Thank you, @takemebacktothe90sss, for talking sense.

Some of the replies here show that a profound lack of understanding about disability still exists, and that's how discrimination begins.

This. Imagine telling anybody suffering from any type of disability to "just get on with it". Bloody insensitive and discriminatory. Not presenting to 100 plus audience is a reasonable adjustment for someone suffering with anxiety. Obviously not a large part of the job if only 4-5 times a year.

I can't believe the ignorant comments on this chat.
Did your workplace not do anything for Mental health week about treating people with MH issues with a bit of respect.

It's quite likely that this person has suffered complex trauma as a child which is causing her social anxiety.
People who have suffered complex trauma behave normally 99% of the time but when they are placed in a stressful situation they revert back to the terrified child state when they probably believed they were going to die.

Propanol, toastmasters and most forms of therapy will not cure their trauma or improve the situation
The only thing that might is many, many years, maybe decades, of psychotherapy or trauma therapy.
They probably live every day dreading the prospect of being asked to do such presentations.
Maybe be grateful that you had a normal enough childhood that you don't to live with this burden every day.

This. Toastmasters is a really supportive place to gain confidence in public speaking and loads of people do it because they're terrified of public speaking.

You remind me of being 2nd form at grammar school in the 80s. (year 8 in today's terminology).

The school had a compulsory elocution competition. The teachers 'couldn't imagine anyone being bothered by it.' which is a phrase that makes me really angry.

One of my friends was very very bright but had a speech impediment. Public speaking was her waking nightmare, but there was no way out of it. Unable to tell anyone, she went onto the roof of the science block in the lunchtime before the first round of the competition and tried to find the courage to jump. When she couldn't manage that, she stuck her arm through the glass of a green house window, to slash her wrist, she was that terrified.

After that the elocution competition became optional.

Yes it causes huge amount of public anxiety. I've worked for marketing directors who won't do it. You are fortunate not to be bothered by it but perhaps you could show a little more compassion!