Why does the UK have 16-17 year olds on adult wards?

[Dodgeitornot]

Just that. I've always been confused by it. As far as I know, most countries in Europe, or even the world, keep patients in pediatrics until they turn 18 or even 21. Why does the UK move them to adult wards so early? Isn't this a safeguarding risk?

This too! Well said.

My daughter had her tonsils removed at 17 and was put on the children's ward. She shared a room with five others ranging from 8-18 yrs. They seemed to keep the younger ones altogether in a different room. I would be very worried if one of my children were admitted and had to stay in an adult ward. My husband was in hospital recently for a few weeks and he was regularly assaulted by fellow patients suffering from dementia etc . He woke several times to find patients going through his belongings and also was very unverved by one very unwell lady who would stand at the end of his bed during the night and drink his water !People would shout and wander the ward at night. There would be no way any of my child would be left there alone I'd kick up an almighty fuss to be allowed to stay with them

That’s good news. The Teenage Cancer Trust are an amazing charity in my experience.

@Dodgeitornot it's also unfortunate when you get 14-15 year old stabbings in. Especially with police sitting in the bay. That is becoming more of an issue. As many of them are in gangs.

Insane. I don’t think the op really wants to listen though, since she’s ignored that her question (why shouldn’t 16-19 year olds be on children’s wards) has actually been answered several times, with the obvious answer that they do not need specialist paediatric care and are physically mature young adults who can generally be treated in the same manner as a 35 year old.

@Chatillon it's a shame that the normal wards are not as fancy.

I genuinely hope your 6 year old doesn't need to be hospitalised at 16 because you will be eating some humble pie. I was asking why this happens in the UK, but pretty much no where else in the world.

I personally have no issue if there’s a 6yr old or a 20yr old next to my 16yr old. My issue is that I can be by him. A 16yr old still needs a parent there. The level of care is also higher in a paediatric ward. On an adult ward there’s a much higher level of fending for yourself unless you are causing issues (and the low levels of staff are dealing with these). My 16yr old would be lost on an adult ward. 16 is still a child. There’s big changes between 16 and 20 imo

Given you said “uk” and not England specifically then you can get married at 16.

You can do so in Scotland and you don’t need parental permission to do so…

OP will also brush off that most people do agree with her comments re mixed sex wards, but that they are irrelevant to the argument that young adults should not be in children’s wards. I mean if you were so uncomfortable at 17 next to a man in hospital since you were vulnerable, why on earth would the answer be that small girls much less able to advocate for themselves should share wards with young men of 16/17/18? And what would occur at age 18 that you’d suddenly be happy to lie next to the man? OP is mixing two arguments that don’t actually compliment each other.

Exactly, but some posters only see a cliff edge based on strict age. Incapable of a wider view.

That’s not what they said.

Well exactly!

When I had appendicitis at 16 I was put in the adolescent section of the children’s ward. We were aged 13 - 17 I think. That worked pretty well.

There was one amusing bit when I was sitting on my bed doing my homework and the “hospital school” teacher came along and asked if I wanted to join the hospital school and then she could help me with my work. I smiled cheerfully and said I was doing my A level further maths homework and she said “or you can stay here and study if you would prefer”.

YES THEY DID. OP said exactly that at 00.07. Stop saying she didn't say stuff that she did say. Why do that when the post is there for all to see?!!!

@Dodgeitornot post from 00.07

Most adult wards are clogged up by extremely old people. If you were to go into hospital now, its far more likely for you to be surrounded by geriatric patients than anyone else.

There are some posters who I've reported as they are just hateful and aggressive. However, I can understand why parents of young kids would be a bit worried if there was 16 and 17 year olds on the same bay as them. It's interesting though, because most medics that have commented, said that children's wards are separate with the bigger kids being in a different bay at least.
It's not just about the children's ward allowing parents to stay, but also exactly as that other poster said, the staff ratios. The ability for nurses to help that child and if they don't have a parent there, to help look after and advocate for themselves. It is extremely scary being an inpatient and a 16/17 year old is still legally a child. I am not even someone who believes in wrapping kids up in cotton wool, quite the opposite. However if you're that young and sick enough to be inpatient, than you really need people advocating for you and you may not know how to do that, especially on an adult ward with overstretched nurses.

Not sure what your teen pregnancy has to do with a really traumatic experience but ok..

Because you are acting like 17 year olds are all scared children who need their parents around 24/7 to advocate for them when that's just not the case for many.

I just cannot imagine a scenario where at 17, living with my partner and paying my own bills and going out to a job everyday, I'd have to then share a ward with 3, 6, and 8 year olds. It's just totally mental to me. Why would I need my mum to stay with me overnight .

I’m in Australia and paeds wards are for 0-18. My DS who is 15 was recently admitted for surgery with a burst appendix. He had his own room for the first couple of days when he was very unwell then they moved him in to share with another teenage boy. The big advantage of paediatric wards is every bed has an armchair beside it that pulls out into a bed so a parent can stay with the child. As for the poster who thinks 15 yr olds should be acting like adults when they’re sick and in pain well I’ll try to keep my language civil. I just had cancer surgery myself and I can tell you that I welled up every time DH walked into the room because it was such a relief to see someone I loved. My DS was very brave but I’m not sure if you’ve ever seen anyone with a burst appendix it is quite horrendous and terrifying regardless of age. In the early hours my DH needed to make a decision about whether to go ahead with surgery when they were 80% sure it was appendicitis (before they knew it had burst obviously) or wait for a scan to confirm it. My 15 yr old by that stage hadn’t eaten for 48 hrs and barely slept but yeah we should have expected him to be a man and cope by himself I suppose?

I'm not. I've said many times there should be a choice given. There shouldn't be an automatic transfer of a 16 year old child to a mixed adult ward. The assumption should be, as it is in most countries in the world, that this is a child. Obv if they're pregnant they go to gynaecology, regardless of age. If the teen prefers an adult ward, go for it. That shouldn't be the automatic assumption though, and it's not in most countries.

Read it again. Where did they say ‘only’?

Only is a word you introduced. They said more likely - and I can’t see how you can argue with that.

Whatever your points of view, you are not really having much positive influence on this thread.

@Dodgeitornot I've found some policies you may find interesting to see the decisions going on behind the scenes regarding patient placement. There seems to be a lot more in place for children with ongoing chronic needs transitioning to adult care and known by peds than a 17 year old acutely admitted with say...appendicitis which I feel is probably more what you are referring to.

I guess I believe it should be a case by case decision. For example my friend is an ICU nurse in Aberdeen who often looks after teens 14+. There is no children's ICU in the kids hospital so kids would need to be transferred 3 hours to Glasgow if they required level 3 care. Obviously transfer is not without risk and a family would be split between Aberdeen and Glasgow for potentially an extended period while the child is unwell. However older teens can be accepted by adult ICU and cared for there.

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.bradfordhospitals.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Admission-of-Children-to-Adult-Wards.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiSlYHsu_3-AhXJasAKHRVACR0QFnoECAgQAQ&usg=AOvVaw060Qc_UF94_pybf-9jE9EF" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Bradford Trust

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.northdevonhealth.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/SOP-Admission-of-a-young-person-to-an-adult-ward-29July16.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiSlYHsu_3-AhXJasAKHRVACR0QFnoECCUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2_so5NWXMnqlNb5UWh5cXR" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Royal devon

@Remaker This is exactly the case in almost every country I've managed to Google information for. The only one I can find so far that's similar is Ireland, but they seem to be more flexible on choice. I can't find anywhere else where peads isn't 0-18.

It would be better if hospitals had wards for say 14-18 year olds. Same sex of course.
A few years ago, my then fifteen year old daughter was in hospital having an operation on her leg. She was placed on an orthopedic ward with other patients who were all elderly.
One elderly woman, who I assume had dementia actually dragged my daughter out of bed by her hair in the middle of the night!
There were old men who were clearly suffering dementia who were wandering around with their tackle hanging out of their pyjama bottoms, another old woman who threw everything she could get her hands on while screaming at the top of her lungs.
It was like a fucking madhouse!
I've never been back to a hospital since apart from the outpatient department.
I don't know if it's improved or not, somehow I think not.
So, I really do think that single sex wards for 14-18 year olds would be a feasible solution.
Mixed sex wards should be banned completely.